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PostPosted: March 10th, 2005, 4:12 am 
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Joined: October 26th, 2004, 12:25 pm
Posts: 155
Location: The Netherlands
I just found out that Green Vally added many new building plans of existing "standard canoe designs" to their program...

These plans now can be ordered on CD-ROM as dxf formatted CAD files.
Check it out!

Green Vally and John Winters also accept Custom Design Requests...

http://www.greenval.com/Green_Valley_Customs.html

Michel, The Netherlands


Last edited by Michel vd Hoven on March 30th, 2005, 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: March 16th, 2005, 8:51 am 
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Joined: September 28th, 2004, 6:52 am
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Thanks for the plug Michel.

I want to point out that Michel is not affiliated with either Redwing Designs or Green Valley Boat Works nor did we put him up to it. :D

I would like to explain why we are now doing this as we have been sitting on the idea for a long time.

By providing plans in electronic format we make it possible to provide reasonably priced custom and modified designs to builders who have special requirements that our stock designs may not meet. It also allows us to offer models currently in commercial production that we could not offer because of low demand and the high costs of producing small quantities of prints.

The down side of this is that the electronic file format allows builders to easily make modifications to the design that may be ill considered. In the past builders have attempted to redesign our boats with unfortunate consequences. The builder ends up unhappy and we look bad as no one knows we were not responsible for the changes. By making changes more convenient we hope builders consult with us first to assure them of a good canoe or kayak.

Providing plans in electronic format also allows a builder to have his stations cut by a CNC machine. The down side of that is that the files can easily be modified for cutting a 3D mold and permitting commercial production of a design without the appropriate license. We would like to say this never happens but we can’t. Unethical people abound in the boat business. We hope that those who buy our plans have higher ethical standards.

People have asked how much one would have to change a design to avoid charges of plagiarism. Unfortunately there is no absolute answer. A simple rule is that changes to dimensions or superficial features are insufficient to qualify as a new design. Each court case however produces a different result depending on the circumstances, the judge, or jury involved. Many naval architects apply the rule that “if it looks like a copy it probably is” a good view if you are a naval architect but maybe not always reasonable.

I hope we never have to test this.

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John Winters


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PostPosted: March 16th, 2005, 5:45 pm 
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Joined: July 18th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Mounds View, Minnesota US
Hey John,

How come I seem to be about 12-15 months ahead of you. :))

I decide I need a longer boat and stretch a Winisk, no sooner then i get it stripped up and you/martin offer the Quetico.

Now I need a real stable canoe, modify a Quetico, and now have it stripped ready for glass and now you offer reasonable design mods on CD. This sure wold have been the preferred route. :)

You're not planned changes to the Osprey now are you? Say longer? :)


BTW, if you're still building, check out Thayercraft for glass, he sells only full rolls but it's very cheap. In my case, 2 rolls (2.3 oz and 2.85 oz), 230 yds for $286 (includes shipping)

Dan


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PostPosted: March 18th, 2005, 7:26 am 
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Joined: September 28th, 2004, 6:52 am
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[quote="Dan Lindberg"]Hey John,

How come I seem to be about 12-15 months ahead of you. :))

What can I say?

It is people such as yourself that drove us to it. The number of pbuiders asking for modified or new designs seems to have risen in the last two years. Not sure what that means other than I should get off my butt and get back in the game. :D

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John Winters


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PostPosted: March 19th, 2005, 2:52 am 
Jwinters wrote:
[...]
>Not sure what that means other than I should get off my butt
>and get back in the game.

Ho, ho, ho!
What about a new version of your book 'The Shape of the Canoe' first?

Dirk Barends


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PostPosted: March 19th, 2005, 8:20 am 
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Joined: September 28th, 2004, 6:52 am
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Dirk wrote:

"Ho, ho, ho!
What about a new version of your book 'The Shape of the Canoe' first? "

Absolutely. I have finished everything but the index and final layout. It has taken longer than I thought it would because I re-wrote more than I planned on. The fact that the old version was done in a format so old that I could not import it easily to my new programs didn't help.

I have taken the drafts around to publishers and no luck yet so may have to publish myself. Not something most publishers consider as a high profit venture I guess.

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John Winters


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PostPosted: March 30th, 2005, 1:49 pm 
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Location: Waterloo, ON
I'll buy a copy of that book whenever it's ready!

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Loon Island Outdoors
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