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PostPosted: July 25th, 2006, 1:51 pm 
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Sorry Hon!! I wasn't ignoring you... just absent-minded and forget which threads are which.

It sounds like you have alot of issues with Capn's canoe. This may or may not be fixed by trying to adjust to it or adjust it to you as I stated.

As you well know buying a canoe is something more than just looking at a canoe and buying it, or buying one from a news ad or from a online posting. Canoes are like art, they are lovingly enjoyed visually, by touch, as well as via their on the water performance. People either like them.... or they hate them.

I find that canoes either seem to fit or they don't.... though I've had to eat my words a couple times as my paddling has evolved to change my mind on a couple canoes too. But I can tell you that you won't use the canoe if you don't like it... so....... figure out what is bothering you about the canoe, and either actively seek to find a new canoe that makes you comfortable, or go back to the old one. Just so long as it gets you on the water. :D

PK


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PostPosted: July 25th, 2006, 5:08 pm 
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Go for it Siren - don't put that measuring tape away, roll up your sleeves, get Captain a beer so he can supervise, take out the offending seat, mess with its placement & height until you're comfy, and then get out the drill and put it in it's place!

(You'll actually need a new seat because you'll be moving it back to a wider part of the canoe. If you don't like the current seats, or if you can't find an exact match and don't want a mismatch, then it's an excuse to get 2 new seats that you do like! Personally, I'm a fan of the mismatched seats, and don't be shy about making a few extra drill holes in the gunwales!)

It'll be a very satisfying afternoon.

I don't know what kind of knee pads went into the Royalex boat, but if you install some pads with wedges for the side of the hull, you can be all snug and even shape them just for the curves of your thighs.

A Kevlar prospector of any make is not too bad a canoe, especially one by a reputable manufacturer and with nice trim. The seat is just in the wrong place for you, so move it back.

Or, now that you've camoe around to like the Appalachian, ditch the prospector, but that's not what I'd do if I lived in a town with a glassy river on its doorstep - it's classier to cruise town in the Kevlar prospector than in the plastic tub.

Uboat.

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PostPosted: July 27th, 2006, 3:27 pm 
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Rats. Pressed the wrong key and logged out. Hope that doesn't mess things up.

As I was typing before I exited (More or less), Siren, you are discovering what so many others have discovered when buying a so called "Prospector". I have taken the lines off six boats and no two were alike.

Will the real Prospector please stand up. For the most part the name has become a joke which is a shame. Few of the so-called "Prospectors" have any similarity to any of the Chestnut versiosn (of which there seem to be a few).

Here is a bit of heresy. If you don't like the boat dump it and get something you like. The boat shouold have to fit the paddler. You pay and you should get what you want. You should not have to change to fit a piece of plastic.

If the Captain won't see things your way, go on strike. I bet he will come around eventually. A happy bow paddler is a joy forever. :D

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PostPosted: July 27th, 2006, 4:09 pm 
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Location: The Gateway to Woodland Caribou
I was told that the Langford version is taken directly from the Chestnut version. Could this possibly be true?

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PostPosted: July 27th, 2006, 4:31 pm 
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Location: Grand Haven, Michigan U.S.A.
rob in angus wrote:
I was told that the Langford version is taken directly from the Chestnut version. Could this possibly be true?


Which Chestnut version? As John said, Chestnut built several Prospector models (especially 16' Prospectors). Then let's complicate it by saying that almost every manufacturer claims to have the original forms, and finally that the change from the original wood and canvas to any other material will also result in a change.

In my mind it's best to forget the lineage of any Prospector. It's unlikely that it's the exact same hull that Bill Mason paddled. But who cares.... what really matters is that the canoe does what you want it to do.

PK


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PostPosted: July 27th, 2006, 9:59 pm 
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Location: Wakefield, Quebec
Jwinters wrote:
Rats. Pressed the wrong key and logged out. Hope that doesn't mess things up.


What kept you?
Siren, looking at a faded and stained Currier and Ives wall calander
8)
Well hallelujah look who's back from holidays
Oh John, you missed the big Summer Party . . .
yeah,
the coven assembled,
some missed the boat, others jumped ship
then the Sherrif sailed in
I lost some Poetry
who-weee
and right now I'm busy brushing up on Greek Stuff again
a-ha,
a p p a r e n t l y that's what's been going on here all the time
get this: The Art of Polemic Discourse
wow hunh? who'd a thunk it, but hey, that's me eh,
always in the vanguard of all the hot trends.
8)

ONE WOULD THINK :o
that the name 'Prospector' carries some branding protection
and 'design guidelines' in the industry
that allow manufacturers to make the claim they've produced
a 'prospectorish' boat.
Can you dredge up that criteria please . . .we've got a new crop of
starry-eyed paddlers, gotta set 'em straight while they're young.

I seem to have misled some of the lads in the boathouse,
(thank you all for the tips)
Capn's easy going about this boat thing,
we were just happy to score on such a light boat with nice wood n' stuff
and now we know that the material compromised the form-
or did it-
hmmm?

:o

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 7:47 am 
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Posts: 442
Missed you too.

This living on the ocean thing keeps me occupied with guests. Strange how we never had many when we lived in the woods.

Quote:
ONE WOULD THINK
that the name 'Prospector' carries some branding protection
and 'design guidelines' in the industry
that allow manufacturers to make the claim they've produced
a 'prospectorish' boat.
Can you dredge up that criteria please . . .we've got a new crop of
starry-eyed paddlers, gotta set 'em straight while they're young.


My understanding is that the Chestnut logo belongs to Algonquin Outfitters (can anyone confirm that?) and that they use it on their version of the boat and have licensed Bell Canoes to use it on their version. Not sure if using the name "Prospector" has any protection so anyone can call their pseudo Prospector a Prospector and they do.

As for the boats using that name one just has to pay your money and hope for the best unless you have a keen eye like us naval achitects who can spot a phoney Prospector across a small lake - well, maybe - some of the time - on a clear day - when we are sober - or misplaced our baggie.

Perhaps it is one of those "plums and prunes" things. "All Prospectors are canoes but not all Prospector canoes are Prospectors" or something like that. The difficult aspect is that no onereally knows what constitutes a real "Prospector".


Quote:
I seem to have misled some of the lads in the boathouse,
(thank you all for the tips)
Capn's easy going about this boat thing,
we were just happy to score on such a light boat with nice wood n' stuff
and now we know that the material compromised the form-
or did it-
hmmm?


Hey, people take you seriously (unlike me who they assume is either wrong or just pulling their leg).

The material isn't the problem, it's the execution and the advertsing folk who think that the name is the thing. (Got to get them to re-read that old fuddy-duddy Alfred Korzybski so they can tell the differnce between the name and the thing)

Anyone can build a true replica of a Chestnut Prospector out of what the great naval architect L. Francis Herreshoff called "snot and rags". You just have to figure out what one is or at least have one of the many "original" versions to copy.

I noticed some acid relfux on some of the other forums. Have you been a bad girl? Or am I allowed to say anything about that on this forum?

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John Winters


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 11:44 am 
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Posts: 1351
Siren Wrote

Quote:
ONE WOULD THINK
that the name 'Prospector' carries some branding protection
and 'design guidelines' in the industry
that allow manufacturers to make the claim they've produced
a 'prospectorish' boat.


I think some companies in the industry simply realized they could sell more of a certain model if they called it a Prospector.... simple marketing decision.

The Chestnut company altered the design somewhat over the years but they stuck to the design's criteria with each change. If you REALLY want a "Prospector" ya just gotta find a Chestnut......... even though 2 boats built on the same form a day apart will have some minor change in shape due to the wood finding it's shape.

I saw a Bear Mountain Prospector beside an old Chestnut wood/canvas a couple of years back and they were VERY similar. The plans I got from BM had a short page on "Traditional Designs" added to the back of the instruction manual. Ted mentioned that BM had developed their version with lines taken directly from a Prospector by Bill Mason.
About as close to the REAL thing as you are likely to get.....

I'm with the folks who keep suggesting that you "move the seat".

Hard to "pose" in the flotilla if you are squished into a wedge......... :D


Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 11:48 am 
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JWinters Wrote

Quote:
This living on the ocean thing keeps me occupied with guests.


Hey John, are you living abord? Good for you, the only way to go... sure wish I still was.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 4:52 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
As I understand it (and as JW said), all prospector "Designs" have similar specs, it is the execution of this basic design that separates prospectors from "prospectors". E.G., some designs have more rocker than others, some are narrower for the same length (or deeper), some even came with a shoe keel and others have no keel etc.
So, there is no definite prospector shape. Chestnut and Peterborough had their prospector shapes and they were not identical either.
So, this thread is really about canoes similar to a prospector shape.
End of discussion (just watch and see the flurrry of replies :roll: ).


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 Post subject: crowded boathouse
PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 7:35 pm 
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Location: Wakefield, Quebec
K-MANNNN!
Oh thankgoodness
I thought you'd fallen off the map too :o
welcome back!
Komatiq wrote:
. . . even though 2 boats built on the same form a day apart will have some minor change in shape due to the wood finding it's shape.


Oh, so it's like not an exact science
kinda more like Art? organic? hmmm? :wink:

Quote:
Hard to "pose" in the flotilla if you are squished into a wedge......... :D

:roll: I'll say . . .the term 'wedgey' may just be redefined!
8)

Jwinters wrote:
I noticed some acid relfux on some of the other forums. Have you been a bad girl? Or am I allowed to say anything about that on this forum?


Oh that :roll:
those were just the Ya-ya's gettin' into the Vino on a Saturday nite-
they were having trouble with the recipe:'Flour-and-water-on-a-stick'
:D

p.s. Where on the Ocean please? So's we can all visit you reeeal soon :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 8:49 pm 
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Posts: 442
Siren wrote;

Quote:
Oh, so it's like not an exact science
kinda more like Art? organic? hmmm?


The art part is keeping the paddler happy. The science part is designing a good boat even though the paddler isn't clever enough to recognise it.

Marketing is convincing the paddler he likes the boat for no good reason.


:D

Enough cynicism for the evening.

Anyway, minor differences in boat shape make minor differences in boat performance. Unfortunately the differences between "Prospectors" are frequently major.

I live on Western Head near Liverpool, Nova Scotia. If you visit bring Cloudy Bay Sauvignon Blanc or Malivoire Old VInes Marachel Foch. If you can't please stay home. Life is too short to drink wines one doesn''t enjoy.

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John Winters


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PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 8:55 pm 
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Siren Wrote:

Quote:
I thought you'd fallen off the map too


Nah, health issues have kept me REALLY busy for the last few months.

See from JWinters question you've managed to keep up the "acid reflux" happening while I was away......... :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the "welcome back", missed all the characters here.

Did you manage to get your dream boat built yet.... :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 28th, 2006, 9:08 pm 
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JWinters Wrote:

Quote:
I live on Western Head near Liverpool, Nova Scotia.


That's a nice area of the province. With all that's happening with boat building back there I was tempted to make the move myself awhile back.

Are you doing design work in the industry there?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: July 29th, 2006, 5:29 am 
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Komatiq wrote;

Quote:
Are you doing design work in the industry ther


I keep my hand in but not full time. This is the third time I have retired and the first time I have not felt I was missing something by not going to work.

Does that mean I really am getting old or just lazier?

. :D

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