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PostPosted: March 24th, 2013, 6:08 pm 
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Joined: December 19th, 2011, 4:44 pm
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Location: Waterloo, ON
Nice collection LRC. Your house must have at least a 2-car (9-boat) garage. :-)

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PostPosted: March 24th, 2013, 7:05 pm 
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Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:47 pm
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
canoeguitar wrote:
Nice collection LRC. Your house must have at least a 2-car (9-boat) garage. :-)


Oh no. The boats have their own barn. There are sixteen canoes. I have room for at least ten more inside. Unfortunately :rofl:

And we have room for another barn..lets not go there. Lets see, what is the carrying capacity in boats per acre? How many 16 foot canoes can occupy 49,000 plus square feet? Lets say 50 square feet per boat. So that comes into almost 100 boats per acre in a single layer. I own two acres and have an easement for another two(( where there is a summer rack for 12 canoes already) and five hundred adjacent acres owned by a timber company..

Lets just call that excessive. Some people collect guns or butterflies or stamps etc. I collect canoes. And there is nothing wrong with only having one canoe!

What is important is not to neglect any canoe. If that happens they do get hurt feelings and go looking for another owner.


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PostPosted: March 24th, 2013, 10:23 pm 
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Joined: July 29th, 2009, 9:29 am
Posts: 387
Location: Lower Saranac Lake, NY
Oh, you know, I'm a compact guy, so I buy boats that fit. That means 28.5" or so wide. I've a C/K Placid FlashFire at 13 ft, a Loon Works wood/Dacron Custom Nakoma at 13 ft and a C/K 14.5 ft Colden DragonFly. All Yost designs; there is a reason for that.


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PostPosted: March 25th, 2013, 4:39 pm 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Charlie Wilson wrote:
Oh, you know, I'm a compact guy, so I buy boats that fit. That means 28.5" or so wide. I've a C/K Placid FlashFire at 13 ft, a Loon Works wood/Dacron Custom Nakoma at 13 ft and a C/K 14.5 ft Colden DragonFly. All Yost designs; there is a reason for that.


Amassing my collection of loves, I realized that almost all of them are DY designs too. There was a reason for that , but until I met and spoke to DY my understanding of the reason was nil. All I knew at first is the designs were quick and did not throw me out of the boat in errant waves.

I can't say the same for the Argosy which has a hull cross section that I personally find distasteful in side waves. But it was cheap.


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PostPosted: March 25th, 2013, 9:57 pm 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 11:21 pm
Posts: 1103
Location: Burns Lake, BC
14' Clipper Prospector for shorter distances or putzing around. Very manoeuvrable empty or loaded. Pure fun.
His and her's, 15'6" Clipper Solitudes for longer trips or just making time. Very seaworthy for the larger waters.
The wife also paddles a Necky Narpa kayak but we're weaning her off of it.


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PostPosted: March 28th, 2013, 4:38 pm 
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Joined: February 23rd, 2008, 8:00 pm
Posts: 20
Location: St. Lazare, Quebec
Last year I rented a Wenonah Wilderness from Red Lake Outfitters for my 2 week Solo in WCPP. It is an amazing boat, fast stable and carries a lot of gear. It is especially fast with a double blade.

http://www.wenonah.com/products/templat ... 22a240aa85

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PostPosted: March 28th, 2013, 10:51 pm 
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Joined: April 27th, 2007, 10:54 am
Posts: 115
Location: Montreal, QC
I used to paddle my dad's old cedar canvas (about 44 years old now) but she leaks and is heavy as sin.

Last year I got a Wenonah Wilderness. Good boat for heavier loads, but be sure to pack in at least 2 separate (or easily unpackable) packs to properly trim the boat. Great value compared to other ultralight boats IMO.


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PostPosted: March 29th, 2013, 6:50 am 
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Joined: December 20th, 2003, 9:27 am
Posts: 968
My solo is a Hellman Solitude. It is reasonably fast and can carry a good load for tripping.

http://www.hellmancanoes.com/hellman-canoes.html
(and scroll down)

At times I paddle our Esquif Mistral backwards from the front seat but it's a handful in the wind.


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PostPosted: March 29th, 2013, 3:14 pm 
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Joined: November 12th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 175
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
I have 2 old school solo whitewater boats - a bluehole sunburst (it's a sunburst '1' I think) and a madriver rampage. I would love to get a newer boat but I can't get out enough to justify buying one...


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PostPosted: March 29th, 2013, 8:14 pm 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 279
Location: Connecticut
I have been tripping with a 16' wood canvas Chestnut Pal for 15 years, pretty heavy, not very fast, required alot of maintenance and dry storage year round, but put me in a back bay in Woodland Caribou or LaVerendrye just before sunset after a hard days solo travel and I'm just about as satisfied as you can get in a canoe...
Image

But now that I'm 65, I have decided to give up the lure of Bill mason's Pal and go lightweight. No more struggling over the portages with a water logged sweet smelling old friend...no, I'm a changed man, I broke down and bought and restored this 15' Chestnut Chum, the best solo canoe a man or woman could ever want, lightweight at 58lbs, fast as a Coleman, but as pretty a canoe a Chestnut lover could ever want...

Before restoration...
Image


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PostPosted: March 30th, 2013, 8:53 pm 
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Joined: July 29th, 2009, 9:29 am
Posts: 387
Location: Lower Saranac Lake, NY
Summary to date.

We've reported 74 canoes to date, and incredibly, 3 kayaks; shameless.
It sums up and breaks down as follows.

20 Tandems used solo
8 WW tandems, all RX
12 Composite flatwater tandems

54 dedicated solo canoes
6 WW hulls, all RX
11 other RX solos, including 6 Swift Ravens
6 pack canoes; sitting low with a double blade
15 solo trippers, including 4 Swift Shearwaters
12 "sport" solos, with 9 by Yost; 6 Flashfire/Nakomas
4 folding canoes

Interesting; more whitewater hulls and fewer tandems than I would have thought. The summary indicates that it is early mud season in the Adirondacks.


Last edited by Charlie Wilson on March 31st, 2013, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: March 31st, 2013, 6:43 am 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
Interesting too is the definitions of lightweight. Of course that word is a comparison and not an absolute. I wouldn't define Robin's Chum as lightweight, nor would I define my Colden DragonFly as lightweight at 38 lbs. I swear the Nomad is getting heavier each time I hoist it on the car..(of course the last time was in 30 mph winds)

But the RapidFire at 23 lbs yes is lightweight.
I forgot the CD Caribou. Count me in the shameless.


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PostPosted: March 31st, 2013, 9:35 am 
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Joined: August 14th, 2012, 10:19 am
Posts: 184
goose wrote:
I have 2 old school solo whitewater boats - a bluehole sunburst (it's a sunburst '1' I think) and a madriver rampage. I would love to get a newer boat but I can't get out enough to justify buying one...

If your Sunburst is yellow or red, it is an original Sunburst. If it is maroon it is a Sunburst II. Plus the decals on Sunburst IIs read "Sunburst II" which is a bit of a tip off.


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PostPosted: March 31st, 2013, 9:52 am 
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
pblanc wrote:
goose wrote:
I have 2 old school solo whitewater boats - a bluehole sunburst (it's a sunburst '1' I think) and a madriver rampage. I would love to get a newer boat but I can't get out enough to justify buying one...

If your Sunburst is yellow or red, it is an original Sunburst. If it is maroon it is a Sunburst II. Plus the decals on Sunburst IIs read "Sunburst II" which is a bit of a tip off.

The Sunburst 1 is quite a beast and not light. The one I transported from Maryland to CT was yellow. But a friend paddles a yellow Sunburst II. It seems much smaller. Are you sure the yellow was only in the first gen? I can't imagine my friend Ken who is five four in a Sunburst I.


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PostPosted: March 31st, 2013, 11:58 am 
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Joined: August 14th, 2012, 10:19 am
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Charlie Wilson wrote:
Summary to date.

We've reported 74 canoes to date, and incredibly, 3 kayaks; shameless.
It sums up and breaks down as follows.

20 Tandems used solo
8 WW tandems, all RX
12 Composite flatwater tandems

54 dedicated solo canoes
6 WW hulls, all RX
11 other RX solos, including 6 Swift Ravens
6 pack canoes; sitting low with a double blade
15 solo trippers, including 4 Swift Shearwaters
12 "sport" solos, with 9 by Yost; 6 Flashfire/Nakomas
4 folding canoes

Interesting; more whitewater hulls and fewer tandems than I would have thought. The summary indicates that it is early mud season in the Adirondacks.


Well, Charlie, since you are keeping track, I can add a few more to the list (a few more than I care to admit).

For a number of years, and especially ever since Dagger and Whitesell crapped out on making canoes, I have purchased used Royalex (and composite) whitewater OC-1s and OC-2s whenever I found one at a tempting price, since many are now out of production.

Among American manufacturers, Mohawk and Mad River are still producing whitewater OC-1s but neither has brought a new design into production for a few years. That will hopefully soon change with the Mohawk Phiend. Until very recently Wenonah did not mold a real whitewater OC-1 (they did make a composite version of Frankie Hubbard's edge in 2 different lengths in the past) but now they have the Recon.

So here is the list beginning with whitewater boats:

Dagger Caper: this is a 14+ foot Royalex whitewater boat initially brought out by Dagger as an OC-1, later as an OC-1/OC-2 as the Caper-T. When seen today it is usually a tandem reincarnation but it makes a terrific whitewater tripping OC-1.

Blue Hole Sunburst II: another 14+ foot Royalex OC-1. Dated design but again makes a very respectable river and whitewater tripper.

Whitesell Piranha: a contemporary of the Sunburst II and another 14+ foot Royalex OC-1. The original big water OC-1 used for many first descents, including that of the indomitable Nolan Whitesell on the Niagra Gorge. You can run Class III rapids in this and miss them if you are not paying close attention. Another long OC-1 often converted to a tandem and another good whitewater tripping OC-1.

Perception HD-1: Some don't recall that Perception made some whitewater canoes, the HD-1 OC-1 and the Chattooga OC-2. This boat is made of the old, heavy Royalex with heavy-duty aluminum gunwales. Can be used to fracture rocks so as to avoid having to go around them. Reasonably fast for a full whitewater boat by today's standards. I know of one good paddler who still paddles one regularly.

Other whitewater Royalex OC-1s:

Dagger Encore, Prophet, Ocoee.
Mohawk Viper 11
Mad River Outrage

On easier whitewater I prefer paddling a composite boat. Since no composite whitewater OC-1s have been mentioned I will add 3:

Mad River Twister: a real blast from the past. This is a 4 meter OC-1 designed for slalom racing. I remember seeing video of Mark Clarke (one of the co-designers) paddling slalom in this thing back around 1989 and it looked like the coolest thing ever. Of course, that is when most whitewater open boaters were paddling Whitesell Piranhas, Blue Hole Sunbursts and Sunburst IIs, or even big Blue Hole OCAs and the Twister cornered like a Ferrari in comparison. When one came up for sale last year I had to buy it, even though it need a fair bit of work.

Hemlock Shaman": another 4 meter OC-1 designed to compete in the combined class (slalom and downriver) and in a way a descendant of the Curtis Dragonfly, since both were designed for use by the same paddler (Harold Deal), with the Crossfire OC-1 in between. The Shaman is a cool asymmetrical design efficient enough that I tend to use it as a downriver tripper rather than on real whitewater since I don't want to break it. It has plenty of volume for overnight river trips.

Clipper Viper 12: a composite version of the 12 1/2' Viper made by Mohawk in Royalex. The Vipers are probably my favorite whitewater OC-1 designs.

Hey, C-1s are solo canoes too. Here are two plastic ones:

Dagger Cascade: a big volume OC-1, fairly user-friendly and reasonably fast.

Dagger Atom: a much lower volume, edgier OC-1, much more nimble than the Cascade but (at least in my hands) significantly less forgiving.

Downriver OC-1:

Wenonah WWC1. A Gene Jensen designed downriver racer, 16' long with just a hint of rocker. Designed to go downstream fast in a pretty straight line and deep enough to keep most of the water out. I bought this very cheap and have used it as a river beater boat. Good for overnight trips and my dogs seem to like it. They can rest their back paws on the center rib to keep from slipping. I know of some folks who have cut this boat down (to reduce windage), rerailed it, and used it as a flat water tripping boat.

Non-whitewater boats:

Mad River Traveler: this is a big volume OC-1 descendant from another downriver racing design (Jim Henry's Screamer). This boat served me very well in years past when my daughters were young. With a lot of volume and a sliding center seat I could carry one of my girls in front of me on flat water lake or Class I river trips. Too much volume to really be appealing to me as a solo canoe these days. I should sell it, but it has too many memories attached. It would be a reasonable OC-1 for expedition flat water tripping or use by large persons carrying a large dog.

Bell Merlin II: a pretty nice compromise design that paddles well either sitting or kneeling on either flat water or moving water. Plenty of volume for tripping. I like this boat but I would trade it for a Swift Osprey if one came my way.

Sawyer Summersong: a nice hard-tracking sit and switch flat water boat, good for exercise paddles. I would trade this one for a Wenonah Advantage if I had the chance.


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