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PostPosted: October 29th, 2022, 12:56 pm 
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Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
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Location: Canmore AB
Wasn’t looking for a new boat but the price was right.
Super Nova tuff stuff exp: the seat is set back from the middle of the boat a bit. I’ve only paddled it in non pushy moving water on the Bow R. Back ferrying is just OK with a bit of forward lean to get the stern up. The majority of paddling will be day tripping with lunch, clothing, safety gear.
When I compare it to my Bell Wildfire where the front of the seat is close to the balance point IE i can portage it with seat sitting on my shoulders. VS the SN I need a separate yoke. Not adverse to the yoke but wondered if I could get away with not using the yoke.
Question: By moving the SN seat forward will I get a detrimental effect on paddling the boat?
Perhaps not a fair comparison in that they are two different beasts,but I like the nimbleness of the Wildfire and hoped to get more out of the Super Nova
Hugh

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


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PostPosted: October 29th, 2022, 7:45 pm 
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Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 11:21 pm
Posts: 1294
Location: Burns Lake, BC
No.

The moving of the seat to a more central position will allow your strokes to be a little more efficient. (bow and side strokes more than stern)
I don't know about going all the way to the balance point with a symmetrical canoe though.


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PostPosted: October 30th, 2022, 6:05 pm 
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Joined: February 25th, 2011, 7:15 am
Posts: 126
Hi Hugh,

Are you looking at balance when kneeling from the seat, or sitting?

I have a SN and haven't moved the seat from the factory position. I have thought about moving the seat forward, but I'm too lazy to do so as I'd also have to move the outfitting (I bought the boat used). It paddles well in WW (e.g. Bloodvein, Lower Mad, Petawawa) when kneeling from this position and the trim is balanced (something I also try to adjust when loading). I can do all the same 2x4 strokes that I do in my playboat. I feel like I'm more or less at the centre of the boat when kneeling, but I haven't measured this exactly.

I understand your concern with nimbleness. The SN is a solid boat, will take you pretty much anywhere, but there are better hulls out there. For me the SN is a bit of a wet ride, slow to initiate a carve (because there are no chines at all), and doesn't glide well. In a head-to-head comparison an Esquif Pocket canyon is faster, dryer, and more nimble; an Ocoee (!) is slightly faster on the flats (much to my chagrin).


Last edited by swampwalker on October 30th, 2022, 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: October 30th, 2022, 7:23 pm 
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Joined: June 22nd, 2004, 4:45 pm
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Location: Canmore AB
swampwalker wrote:
Hi Hugh,

Are you looking at balance when kneeling from the seat, or sitting?

I have a SN and haven't moved the seat from the factory position. I have thought about moving the seat forward, but I'm too lazy to do so as I'd also have to move the outfitting (I bought the boat used). It paddles well in WW (e.g. Bloodvein, Lower Mad, Petawawa) when kneeling from this position and the trim is balanced (something I also try to adjust when loading). I can do all the same 4x4 strokes that I do in my playboat. I feel like I'm more or less at the centre of the boat when kneeling, but I haven't measured this exactly.

I understand your concern with nimbleness. The SN is a solid boat, will take you pretty much anywhere, but there are better hulls out there. For me the SN is a bit of a wet ride, slow to initiate a carve (because there are no chines at all), and doesn't glide well. In a head-to-head comparison an Esquif Pocket canyon is faster, dryer, and more nimble; an Ocoee (!) is slightly faster on the flats (much to my chagrin).


Thanks fo the input. I’m more concerned kneeling. I rarely, do WW strokes: eddy in/out etc sitting. This boat is so much wider and deeper than I’m used to and I feel I’m reaching sometimes. Because I’ll be day tripping cargo and weight distribution options are minimal. I concur that it doesn’t glide well. I’m going to have to wait til spring to sort this. The boat came with a removable yoke but I’m into less is more so thought by moving the seat forward I could portage it using the front of the seat. I’m sure Nova craft has placed the seat where they think is best.
Hugh

_________________
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
M.T.


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PostPosted: October 31st, 2022, 7:46 am 
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Joined: April 21st, 2004, 10:52 am
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Location: Near Ottawa ON
swampwalker wrote:
In a head-to-head comparison an Esquif Pocket canyon is faster, dryer, and more nimble
These are very different boats. In my view the Canyon was designed more for WW, the SN for general down-river tripping. The Canyon has more flare and is deeper so should be drier. Having more rocker and seated in the middle it should turn easier (be more nimble).

The SN is a touch longer (14'10" vs 14"6"), narrower(32" vs 34.5") and has less rocker (2.5" vs 4"). In the Canyon, with the seat at the widest point, the paddle stroke imparts more torque (requiring energy to correct) and less forward energy then in the narrower SN sitting farther back. All these things imply the SN would be "faster", no?

John Winters' advice would be to paint the SN red. <chuckle>.


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PostPosted: October 31st, 2022, 11:53 am 
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Joined: February 25th, 2011, 7:15 am
Posts: 126
Hi Krusty,

I agree with everything you say about the Pocket Canyon vs SN!

Completely non-scientific experiment, but I just came off a WW trip with a buddy who paddled a Pocket Canyon. I would say that his boat was more heavily laden. He paddled from the bow seat, backwards, so not from the centre of the boat. On the flats I struggled to keep up in the SN (and it's red!). He would heel over the boat a bit to paddle the flats. He's bigger than me, so likely a stronger paddler, so this might factor into the difference. I like my SN, unlikely to part with it, but I was thoroughly impressed with the Pocket Canyon.


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PostPosted: October 31st, 2022, 1:45 pm 
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Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
Posts: 2244
Location: Manitoba
Here's another idea, which is a bit out of the box perhaps. Move the seat back and install a permanent yoke.

You mentioned that most of your paddling will be day tripping with a bit of gear so it should be easy enough to trim the canoe on the water--toss your daypack in the bow. Day tripping to me means portaging to and from the car so a fixed yoke is hassle free. I assume the Nova Craft Super Nova you have is not a lightweight hull, so again a proper yoke has merit.

Paddling from aft of centre would not be preferred in whitewater manoeuvring but for downriver paddling it's a great stance--efficient for forward speed and good enough for the odd eddy entrance or exit, front ferry, etc. I would suggest, it's even a better position than paddling a canoe in the opposite direction from the bow seat.

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http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 


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