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PostPosted: August 23rd, 2011, 11:21 pm 
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario
I bought a used Osprey 5 or so years ago and its been perfect for some solo trips and day paddles. I'm a bigger guy at close to 200 (sometimes too close) so with me and my gear I'm sure I've been at or over the optimum load range of 120-260 lbs.

However even fully loaded it's never seemed an issue, there's lots of freeboard left and it still handles well. Thing is I've now got a dog that enjoys camping too and I've taken him on a couple of trips with the family in the tandem canoe. I'd like to take him on my next solo but at 80lbs will I be overloading the Osprey?

I noticed the Swift web site also specs an 'industry capacity' of 400 lbs. What does this mean? Before I go anywhere I'll try the dog and gear out on an hour paddle on the nearby creek anyway but I'd like to hear other's opinions on putting about 350 lbs of man/dog/gear into an osprey.

Ragnar


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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 12:33 am 
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Not sure as that is a marketing term used to compare stated capacities. Some manufacturers state blatant capacity figures close to a ton.

They measure what the boat can carry leaving six inches of freeboard.

You don't specify gear weight but I will hazard a guess about 340 lbs with dog. Close to your guesstimate.

So while you will be safe in small lakes your boat might perform ala log.

You really have to try but Swedeform boats are really trim sensitive and you might find yourself either rearranging your dog to be behind you and your stuff in front. Or, as I did, have a fruitless conversation with your dog as to laying by your feet. She did not. She wanted to stand in the bow up way forward.

PS. dry padded surfaces might help in canine cooperation.


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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 7:49 am 
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Osprey was my primary tripping canoe for about ten years. The 80 pound dog with gear is too much for it. I would take my 60 pound dog out regularly, but only with no gear.


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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 7:54 am 
Industry Capacity rating is the 6 inch freeboard capacity, a figure with which you can compare the volume of canoes. This does not tell you how a canoe paddles with that kind of weight, because that figure depends on the depth of the canoe, as you can see in the drawing below with three identical canoes, except that the upper one is not as deep as the other two.

Image

Optimum Load Range is the weight range within the canoe will perform best as intended.
You can of course take more or less weight aboard, but then its performance will not be as optimal as intended.
If you know what you are doing, this doesn't have to be a problem, but then you already know this :wink:

Dirk Barends

(if you can read Dutch, I recommend reading the article I wrote about Capacity of canoes:
https://sites.google.com/site/barendsnoot/faq/cap)


Last edited by Guest on June 14th, 2017, 7:14 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 9:14 am 
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Dirk-Barends wrote:
(sorry for the Dutch and Metric writing in the drawing, but if you can read Dutch, I recommend reading the article I wrote about Capacity of canoes. http://home.planet.nl/~xele42sb/capaciteit.html)


No need to be able to read Dutch---Google translates into English: "The middle canoe in this drawing is the top canoe, but with more depth and thus more freeboard, making this canoe dryer speed of 200 kg on board. "

:lol: :doh:

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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 10:13 am 
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:rofl: :rofl:


good grief what Google does to the Dutch language

Quote:
What particularly American canoe builders specify as (maximum) capacity for their canoes, the so-called 15 inch freeboard capacity is the amount of weight in the canoe that you have at least 15 cm of freeboard left. Although this number with your volume slightly canoes can compare, in fact says nothing about the sailing characteristics of a canoe with that amount of weight on board.
In the diagram below for example, the top kayak a freeboard of 15 cm with 200 kg on board and sail this does reasonably well.



The middle canoe in this drawing is the top canoe, but with more depth and thus more freeboard, making this canoe dryer speed of 200 kg on board.
The bottom canoe is the middle canoe with 400 kg on board and had just as much freeboard top canoe, but will go very badly with that amount of weight on board. The weight at which a deep canoe full speed, can also be less than half of those 15 inch freeboard capacity!

Optimum Load Range

Influenced by canoe designer John Winters as his canoe builders Swift and later Bell referred to the displacement to give up their canoes, in the form of a so-called full load range. This gives a minimum and maximum weight with which you can sail under their most relevant in the canoe provided. Although you eventually will have to decide yourself whether you think that indeed the ideal weight is to sail, these figures give a better picture of how much weight at which a canoe as intended, because you know that when you limit them board at the border have come from the best possible ride characteristics of the canoe as intended. Also do you know that with less weight on board than the specified range may not be as good with the canoe will sail: good to know if you are comfortable without a heavy load to go.
Dilemma

Canoe designer John Winters has therefore given the start in his neatly-designed canoe for canoe builder Swift. Only problem was that potential customers so thought these canoes were too small, because the capacity of similar canoes from other brands that the 15 cm freeboard capacity as the maximum capacity indicated, twice as much could be. That is why the so-called Swift still 15 cm freeboard capacity to specify their canoes in the form of a so-called Industry Capacity Rating. For example, the Swift Kipawa a full load range "of 160-230 kg, while as Industry Capacity Rating" 430 kg is given. However, you should not think with 430 kg in the Kipawa to sail, if at all would happen ?
Draft

Some canoe companies, like Bell, besides giving the so-called optimal loading range, the depth to a certain amount of load. Although that number does not say much about how a canoe loaded with that amount - especially if you do not know exactly what the shape of the canoe - it may give a good picture of the capacity. With a depth of 12.5 cm, most canoes at the border because of the amount of load that they have had good sailing, especially solo canoes.


Just look at the pictures and the relative depth of the boats!


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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 12:17 pm 
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I'm pretty sure the picture is accurate when it shows "15 cm" as opposed to the text which states "15 inches" or as Dirk put in his post '15" ' which in North America is commonly read as "15 inches". I'm not sure I know of any canoes with a 15" depth let alone 15" of freeboard. :wink:

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PostPosted: August 24th, 2011, 2:05 pm 
Splake wrote:
I'm pretty sure the picture is accurate when it shows "15 cm" as opposed to the text which states "15 inches" or as Dirk put in his post '15" ' which in North America is commonly read as "15 inches". I'm not sure I know of any canoes with a 15" depth let alone 15" of freeboard. :wink:

Yes I mixed it up, but have corrected my error.

littleredcanoe wrote:
good grief what Google does to the Dutch language [...]

Because it bothers me some, I edited the translation a bit and translated the text in the drawing just to make things easier to understand.

In the diagram below the top canoe has a freeboard of 6 inches with 440 lb. on board and paddles reasonably well with this amount of weight.
The canoe in the middle is the same as the top canoe above, but with more depth and thus more freeboard, making this canoe dryer with 440 lb. on board.
The bottom canoe is the middle canoe with 880 lb. on board and just as much freeboard as the top canoe, but will paddle very bad now. The weight with which a deep canoe paddles well, can thus be less than half of that 6 inch freeboard capacity.


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PostPosted: August 26th, 2011, 9:30 am 
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Thanks all. You've more or less confirmed what I feared. I'll probably still try the dog and gear for an afternoon paddle nearby ... but i'll make sure it's a hot day and the water is warm and clean.

I can see myself trying out a bigger solo someday, maybe the shearwater.


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PostPosted: August 26th, 2011, 11:55 am 
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I find that when tripping solo with a dog, a smaller tandem is often preferable, like the Pal. If you are really into the swift designs, I would look at the Raven over the Shearwater, quite a bit of room in that one.


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