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 Post subject: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 21st, 2014, 4:55 pm 
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Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA
Manitoba Parks told me we need to use an official fire pan if we do not have an official fire ring at our official camp site. We are paddling from Wekusko Lake to Setting Lake which is outside the Grass River Provincal Park and I doubt anything will be official. I am in need of an example, brand, etc. that is official. Everything I am finding is a heavy monster approved by the USFS for rafting trips that no canoest would want to use. All we need is a fire for to grill a fish or two. Looking for ideas and suggestions. Thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 21st, 2014, 5:39 pm 
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You're not in a park so it's not really anything to do with them!

Can't remember if it even mentions it in the other acts.

From what I remember folk had built fire rings of rocks at the majority of places we stopped. When we camped on a beach on Setting lake we found a grill that a boater had left (there are cottages on Setting and it has motor boat access) though as we spent 36 hours sitting out a hurricane we never had a fire at that camp.

If you are really desperate to take one I can lend you a titanium Yukon, just drop by on your drive north!

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 6:50 am 
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What it comes down to is the open fire ban that the Province institutes every summer from April to Sept? It is because half the Province burned one year and it cost a fortune so they try to keep idiots from starting fires.

The canoeing crowd gets into a sticky situation with all that but here is the long and short of it.....take a stove. Use that to cook with primarily. You can take a stick stove or firebox too. We have tried the biolite stick stove and it works but really is a PITA to manage.
On the odd time you have a SMALL fire to cook with or sit out at before the mosquitoes get too fierce try to use common sense. Put the fire on a rock outcrop if you can. Keep it small to avoid hot embers flying far away. Put it stone cold to the touch OUT with tons of water when you are done. I never cook over fire in the morning before we pack up and head out as its too easy to skip the safety aspect of things when you are in a hurry.
I seriously enjoy a fire when I am out in the bush and if you take even a little bit of care then it will be fine. Just remember though, it is illegal in Manitoba to have an open fire during summer so be carefull and discrete.

Christy


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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 9:31 am 
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I'm in on this trip also. We are all experienced wilderness trippers and use
small stoves to cook. But we'd enjoy a fire for shore lunches grilling fish and an evening fire for lookin and cookin. Nothing makes camp a home like the smell of woodsmoke.

I wonder if a pan like this would be "approved"?

http://www.amazon.com/Behrens-2168-3-Ga ... anized+pan

or this?

http://www.amazon.com/Behrens-Galvanize ... anized+pan

or do they want the entire fire enclosed in a firebox?

Main thing we don't want to have a ranger roll up on us and issue tickets.

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Last edited by jjoven on June 22nd, 2014, 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 10:02 am 
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yes, sorry forgot about the summer ban! I think the reference to Parks dept fooled me.

One thing I have come up against a few times in Manitoba is a statement saying that only "approved" items should be used but then does not tell you which items are approved and although in this case it states that the fire pit must be approved by an "officer" this is a very wide description and not particularly helpful to travelling paddlers.

There are a variety of city bylaws which are more specific but they vary from town to town and often contain exemptions for barbecues These look to be aimed at folk who build a big fire to sit round with a few beers and are likely to leave it unattended at the end of an evening when they head indoors.


It's interesting how so many laws framed to catch "lowest common denominators" often catch those that try to limit our impact. Using a stick stove fuelled by by what we find on the forest floor requires fairly frequent feeding to maintain a constant heat unlike using large logs which burn for longer and form a bed of coals. Rules that seal the fire in behind solid walls and mesh make feeding the fire more difficult and lead to designs like the biolite that are not user friendly.

Sorry doesn't answer your question.

Keep it small and don't burn if windy!

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 10:06 am 
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Ranger?

I think they have all been quietly let go in the budget cuts!

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 1:08 pm 
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I have already been told that burning in a metal container like a kerosene can with part of one side cut out is a "no go". Some of the twig stoves I have seen look very questionable when compare to a small fire in a can. As JJoven said, we want to be responsible, safe and avoid a ticket.

Parks Canada said they would get back in touch with me after they speak with the Wabowden District. I hope to hear that because we are outside of the Provincial Park that the requirements will be less restrictive but a "complete fire ban" does have me concerned. The fact that they also know our approximate dates discourages me from taking chances.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 1:25 pm 
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I'm sure most will know what you mean but please try to get the terminology right. This has nothing to do with Parks Canada or even Manitoba Parks dept.

As Segosih reminded me Manitoba Conservation and Water Stewardship (the Provincial organisation have decided that-

"Open fires are prohibited from April 1 to Nov. 15 annually, except under a burning permit or in enclosed approved firepits such as grated campfire pits in provincial campsites"

We look forward to reading what the local Conservation Officers have to say!

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 1:38 pm 
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You are correct Chris. I originally reached out to Parks Canada. Upon re-reviewing who replied it was Manitoba Conservation and Water Stewardship.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 7:54 pm 
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LOL Are you serious? You can't have a fire while on a canoe trip? I have a hard time imagining that being enforced. I've never even seen ANYONE from the MNR while paddling for weeks in far northern Manitoba. I don't think they like the bugs...


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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 22nd, 2014, 9:15 pm 
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jjoven wrote:
I wonder if a pan like this would be "approved"?



http://www.amazon.com/Behrens-Galvanize ... anized+pan




Thats what is used on western rivers in the US where a fire pan is required. But ask if there are minimum dimensions. Each agency differs. On the Green River the firepan height must be two inches on BLM land.. On the same river when you cross into NPS territory the height must be 2.5 inches.

Government bureaucracy..go figure. And on the Green you can get away with a turkey roasting pan as long as you don't intend to have a fire.. *huh?* *huh?*

No None of this makes sense but I am not making it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2014, 3:53 pm 
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Judging by the number of rock fire pits at campsites along crown land rivers in Manitoba most folk don't believe in the regs either!

I don't think those galvanized pans would comply. The sides would probably need to be at least 6" high (maybe even 12" if you look at the ones in the parks) and also have a grill covering the whole of the top with holes no more than 1/2' wide.

This actually makes it very difficult to use for cooking. The temperature tends to rollercoaster up and down as you fill the pit up then let it burn right down before adding more wood due to the inconvenience of lifting pot and grill off before adding wood.

The depth of the approved pits also encourages a much bigger fire.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2014, 7:09 pm 
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What about the either of the littlbug stoves with a pan?

I have both the junior and the senior and they are both easy to pack and light. I don't own the bowls but they look alright:
http://www.littlbug.com/senior_fire_bowl.html

Chris, don't some of your fireboxes have bottoms?


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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2014, 7:39 pm 
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Great news! Manitoba Conservation and Water Stewardship sent me an email giving us an exemption with the appropriate warnings and caveats. This is why I like Manitoba vs. Ontario.

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 Post subject: Re: Fire pan options?
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2014, 7:56 pm 
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Worth wrote:
This is why I like Manitoba vs. Ontario.


I've been out of touch, does Ontario also have a fire ban?

As for your "special permission" I think they just realized the absurdness of their position. Print that email on waterproof paper and bring it along.

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