View topic - what is high winds?

It is currently October 1st, 2020, 12:42 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: what is high winds?
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 7:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 4th, 2003, 3:00 pm
Posts: 452
Location: Paris, On
They are forcasting 30km/hr winds for later this week, this sounds pretty high to me... what in your experience is too high (ok obviously the size and shape of the lake truely dictates this, but as a general ruel)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 8:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 21st, 2003, 7:50 am
Posts: 2400
Location: Mapping Wabakimi PP!
Only the winds at your back is acceptable. Plan your route around that.

Barry

_________________
It's all about forward progression!


"Preservation of our waterways comes from those with little voices, big paddles, strong backs, weak minds and thick hides with which to ignore the bug bites." Organizer of "The Wabakimi Project"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 8:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 18th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 683
Location: arnprior, Ontario can
Thats a 3-4 on the beaufort scale.

Waves likely to 4 feet on open water 1-3 on smaller lakes, some whitecaps.

Tough to paddle into, fun to run if your comfortable with it.

Looks like a week of rain too :cry:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 8:44 am 
Offline

Joined: August 13th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3048
30 km is usually the point where I draw the line and pull over until the winds calm a bit - granted I've paddled 25 - 30 km an hour winds and all I can say is that it was a workout and a half and I got a little wet.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 9:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3145
If it sounds high to you listen to your inner voice and stay home.

There is too much variability: in the temp of water you are paddling in, how you are clothed ,the shape and bathymetry of the water body, the gear you might want to take , the canoe you will be taking and the position of your course relative to the windward side of the lake to tell you that the seas will be x feet with a period of x seconds and you will make x km an hour if paddling upwind.

I can say that with a windspeed of 30 km an hour and a receding tide there may be no sea at all but sure enough if I paddle and the tide turns I am not going to make it home and my next stop will be Africa. If I am paddling a foot deep slough the waves will be maybe a foot high and choppy but the paddling will be miserable because of interference from the bottom wave of the canoe. I have paddled in 90 km winds on the windward side of a long narrow lake in a wind shadow. My course took me along that shore and my progress was normal as I was in effect paddling in 5 km winds from the side(the shape of the land funnelled the wind over my head). But I have given up in 30 km winds where islands funnelled and concentrated the wind (the Bernouilli effect I think it is) so that the wind could be 50 kph.

See the right answer is as always , maybe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 9:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 4th, 2003, 3:00 pm
Posts: 452
Location: Paris, On
hmmm... i am definitally not comfortable with 3' waves. 2' we can likely manage just fine. well at least they have already droped the forcast back down to 20km/hr winds!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 9:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 6237
Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Wind at this time of year can also create windchill on the water, make sure you have something to protect against that whenever a long paddle in wind is going to be done.

_________________
><((((º>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: High (head) winds
PostPosted: October 12th, 2005, 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1817
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
I have occasionally canoed into 20 -25 mph winds (32-40km) on shallow coastal bays and, even using a double blade paddle, and that is about the limit of what I can make headway into. I doubt I’d have made any headway with a single blade.

This was in “ideal” conditions, if working in high headwinds can in any way be called ideal – relatively warm water, shallow (knee deep) enough to simply stand up and self-rescue, in a canoe equipped with spray covers (although shallow waters seem to amplify chop). I would not have made the attempt if these trips had involved cold/deep water where self-rescue would have been difficult.

The difficulties in paddling to high headwinds are multiple; you have a much more limited ability to pick a route – pick a angle too far off dead into the wind and you’ll be fighting to bring the bow back around. Combine that with the necessity to devise a route that takes advantage of any sneak or windshadow and the whole thing becomes an exercise in chess-like strategy of plotting a route several moves ahead.

If you are crossing an eembayed shoreline, or need to cross a lake, in rolling waves and windblown chop you are often committed; at some point-of-no-return it is riskier to try to turn around and retreat than to persevere. That makes me include leeward rest-&-recuperate breaks in any strategic route.

In other conditions (wind across a large deep lake at a 90 degree angle to our route) we have been windbound by 15 mph/24 km winds (loaded canoes, no spraycovers).

Like Kim said, there is too much variability – what boat and load and equipment (double blade, spraycovers), what’s the orientation, shape and depth of the body of water, availability of windshadow for sneak routes and refuge, water temp, air temp, feasibility of self-rescue wind direction in relation to your route.

Yup, the answer is absolutely maybe.

(BTW – High tailwinds, especially if they kick up steep rolling waves that are moving faster then your canoe, can be an equally daunting hazard)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 13th, 2005, 10:22 am 
Offline

Joined: January 14th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
I was surprised to learn recently that technically a breeze becomes a wind at 30 MPH. But that wasn't the question.

Here is what I decided on the tundra a few years ago: If while walking into the wind and I turn to light a cigarette and there are black flies buzzing in my lee, I should be paddling.
If on the other hand, I am walking into the wind and turn to light the cigarette and there are no black flies in my lee, I am wise to be on land. 8)

howard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Beaufort Scale
PostPosted: October 13th, 2005, 10:32 am 
Offline

Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1817
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
For those who are not familiar:

Beaufort Scale
(Wind Force Scale)

Beaufort 0 - Calm
Wind Speed - less than 1 knot/1 MPH
At Sea - Sea is like a mirror
Wave Height - Flat
On Land - Smoke rises vertically

Beaufort 1 - Light Air
Wind Speed - 1-3 knots, 1-3 MPH
At Sea - Ripples with the appearance of
scales are formed but without crests
Wave Height - 2-4 inch
On Land - Direction of wind shown by
smoke drift, but not by vanes

Beaufort 2 - Light Breeze
Wind Speed - 4-6 knots, 4-7 MPH
At Sea - Small wavelets, still short but
more pronounced, crests have a glassy
appearance but do not break
Wave Height - 1 foot
On Land - Wind felt on face, leaves rustle,
ordinary vane moved by wind

Beaufort 3 - Gentle Breeze
Wind Speed - 7-10 knots, 8-12 MPH
At Sea - Large wavelets, crests begin
to break, scattered whitecaps
Wave Height - 1-2 feet
On Land - Leaves and twigs inconstant
motion, wind extends light flag

Beaufort 4 - Moderate Breeze
Wind Speed - 11-16 knots, 13-18 MPH
At Sea - Small waves, becoming longer,
fairly frequent whitecaps
Wave Height - 2-4 feet
On Land - Raises dust and loose paper,
small branches are moved

Beaufort 5 - Fresh Breeze
Wind Speed - 17-21 knots, 19-24 MPH
At Sea - Moderate waves taking a more
pronounced form, many whitecaps,
chance of spray
Wave Height - 4-8 feet
On Land - Small trees in leaf begin to spray,
crested wavelets form on inland waters

Beaufort 6 - Strong Breeze
Wind Speed - 22-27 knots, 25-31 MPH
At Sea - Large waves begin to form,
foam crests everywhere, some spray
Wave Height - 8-13 feet
On Land - Large branches in motion,
whistling heard in wires

Beaufort 7 - Near Gale/Moderate Gale
Wind Speed - 28-33 knots, 32-38 MPH
At Sea - Seas heap up, white foam from
breaking waves begins to be blown in
streaks along the direction of the wind
Wave Height - 13-20 feet
On Land - Whole trees in motion,
inconvenience felt when walking against
the wind

Beaufort 8 - Gale/Fresh Gale
Wind Speed -34-40 knots, 39-46 MPH
At Sea - Moderate high waves of greater
length, foam blown in well marked streaks
along direction of wind
Wave Height - 13-20 feet
On Land - Breaks twigs off trees,
generally impedes progress

Beaufort 9 - Strong Gale
Wind Speed - 41-47 knots, 47-54 MPH
At Sea - High waves, dense streaks of foam along
direction of wind, crests of waves begin to topple,
tumble and roll over, spray may affect visibility
Wave Height - 13-20 feet
On Land - Slight structural damage occurs

Beaufort 10 - Storm/Whole Gale
Wind Speed - 48-55 knots, 55-63 MPH
At Sea - Very high waves with long overhanging
crests, surface of sea takes on white appearance
Wave Height - 20-30 feet
On land - Trees uprooted, considerable structural
damage occurs

Beaufort 11 - Violent Storm/Storm
Wind Speed - 56-63 knots, 64/75 MPH
At Sea - Exceptionally high waves
Wave Height - 30-45 feet
On Land - Widespread damage

Beaufort 12 - Hurricane
Wind Speed - 64 knots+, 75 MPH+
At Sea - Air filled with foam and spray
Wave Height - 45+ feet
On Land - Widespread damage


Last edited by Mike McCrea on October 13th, 2005, 12:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 13th, 2005, 10:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 18th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 683
Location: arnprior, Ontario can
keep in mind the wave height is speaking of open ocean conditions, inland lakes respond differently.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 13th, 2005, 11:13 am 
Offline

Joined: January 14th, 2003, 7:00 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
So on the Beaufort scale, which is probably where my reference came from, there is no wind? From strong breeze to gale.
howard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beaufort Scale
PostPosted: October 13th, 2005, 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: March 13th, 2004, 8:11 am
Posts: 1161
Location: Northern Edge of Vermont
Mike McCrea wrote:
Beaufort 4 - Moderate Breeze
Wind Speed - 11-16 knots, 13-18 MPH
At Sea - Small waves, becoming longer,
fairly frequent whitecaps
Wave Height - 2-4 feet
On Land - Raises dust and loose paper,
small ranches are moved

This is why I don't live in or on a ranch.

_________________
Steve Boal

Most of the world's political, social, and environmental problems have the same root cause: human overpopulation. By 2050 or so, the world population is expected to reach nine billion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Beaufort Scale
PostPosted: October 13th, 2005, 12:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1817
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
SteveBoal wrote:
Mike McCrea wrote:
Beaufort 4 - Moderate Breeze
Wind Speed - 11-16 knots, 13-18 MPH
At Sea - Small waves, becoming longer,
fairly frequent whitecaps
Wave Height - 2-4 feet
On Land - Raises dust and loose paper,
small ranches are moved

This is why I don't live in or on a ranch.


And trailer homes begin to take flight at Beaufort 10.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: October 13th, 2005, 3:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3145
now imagine you are in your canoe and not the man o war on this website.

Its interactive and fun. I found out the Beaufort scale was originally derived not as a measure of windspeed at all....Read on...

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lot/webpage/beaufort/


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 67 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group