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PostPosted: April 1st, 2019, 8:11 pm 
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Ok Dave, I went and took some measurements.

The bench seat in my Magic has 7/8" drop over 9" and also has a bevelled front edge 8 1/2" up from the bottom of the hull. Footbrace, seat pad, kneepads, and thighpads installed for all paddling postitions.


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2019, 8:43 pm 
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Jeff Thanks that's a great recap of all the things to try. And thank you for the dimension on your seat angle. Yes, I have a bunch of things to experiment with to get this worked out for my body.

CHTed Thanks for taking the time to measure the dimensions. It falls in line with Jeff's configuration. That give me a good place to start experimenting from.

And Again I appreciate everyone contributing to the thread. I've learned a bunch.

Dave


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2019, 5:46 am 
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Canoeheadted wrote:
Ok Dave, I went and took some measurements.

The bench seat in my Magic has 7/8" drop over 9" and also has a bevelled front edge 8 1/2" up from the bottom of the hull. Footbrace, seat pad, kneepads, and thighpads installed for all paddling postitions.


Measured seat in my Guide, drop of 3/8" with the front beveled edge almost 9"from bottom of hull with the same outfitting as Canoeheadted. I actually remounted seat higher than factory. I would post a pic but can never get it to work. Pm me if you want one.


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PostPosted: May 16th, 2019, 2:11 pm 
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Beeing a heavy man kneeing...is very hard.

I baught a saddle at my local store in ottawa (sail) work nicely.
I cant knee anymore due to feet problemes now,, so onother problemes for me to kneeing.

Theres also inflatable saddle in the whitewater world. Need some support under there,,i helps a lot.


But yes got my share of walking probleme after long period kneeing...


Joco


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PostPosted: May 22nd, 2019, 4:31 pm 
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Joco
An inflatable saddle you say? That sounds interesting. I didn't see any in a quick search that I did but I like the idea. Does anyone know of a specific company providing such a thing?


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PostPosted: May 22nd, 2019, 4:36 pm 
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I decided to tackle the world of solo whitewater canoeing on the weekend. I took a course at MKC. I headed out on the first morning in a Esquif Zephyr chosen from their collection of boats. It was a very uncomfortable morning for my ankles and knees. In selecting a boat I initially checked to see if the foot pegs could move far enough back and the thigh straps adjust to accommodate my long legs and big feet and it seemed to work on dry land but once out on the water for a prolonged period of time I couldn't get comfortable. The saddle needed to be taller. I couldn't get the foot peg position correct so it didn't put too much pressure on the ends of my toes. Kneeling in a more erect position (thighs perpendicular to the hull) made the boat very unstable so I couldn't take anything more than a few seconds of relief. Please, someone offer me some cheese to go with my whine.

Upon getting back to the base for lunch the instructor and I looked more carefully at boats and ended up selecting a Wenonah Recon. A couple of feet longer than the 11ft Zephyr and more stable which allowed me to stretch out once in a while but what it had that was amazing and I wanted to share it here because comments made by other contributors to the thread was the foam blocks glued to the bottom (which may have been set there as wide mounted foot pegs for someone short) that my ankles rested on. You guys were so right! The foam blocks under the ankles took away the ankle pain. I am so going to get some foam shaped for my ankles for when I tandem trip. Thanks! :D

As for Solo whitewater canoes, Yes, I am going to stay at it. It was challenging, cold when I went for a swim but fun when you got it right. I learned lots that will improve my tandem WW paddling and have developed a new respect for people that make the forward offside stoke look easy. I just have to find a configuration of saddle and boat that I will be able to stay out in for a while. The quest to paddle pain free on my knees continues.


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PostPosted: May 22nd, 2019, 4:40 pm 
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PS headed over the Palmer River Fest on Saturday night. It was fun. Talked to a few folks and enjoy grooving to the band!


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PostPosted: May 22nd, 2019, 7:47 pm 
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Just a few more comments in case any are helpful. I also have knee pain and stiffness. It's a helpful thread and nice to hear what others do.

In no particular order...

A strip type kneeling pad gives more legroom that a bigger T-type pad since your feet aren't raised up as high.

I don't like taking any medication but if you are planning a long day you might take some ibuprofen beforehand and preferably starting the night before since it takes some time to get into your bloodstream.

Taking a firm flotation cushion (or some other supplemental cushion) along can give you the option to raise your seating position for times when you don't need to be in the lowest position. Supplemental cushions can also help you tune in to the ideal seat height that lets you easily shift weight between butt and knees.

When I was also dealing with sciatic nerve problems I found that an inflatable seat cushion was best for me...and I have a small collection of seat cushions.

All kneeling pads are not created equal. Some are better than others.

If you tie a big bunch of helium balloons to yourself you'll look really festive and it might help.

If you do want a tractor seat on a conventional canoe kneeling seat they are offered by Hemlock Canoe.

http://www.hemlockcanoe.com/hemlock-seat.html


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PostPosted: May 24th, 2019, 9:32 am 
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Quote:
A strip type kneeling pad gives more legroom that a bigger T-type pad since your feet aren't raised up as high.


Daypaddler. I can't visualize what you're trying to explain.... feet aren't raised as high?


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PostPosted: May 24th, 2019, 9:36 am 
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I have a Mad River Caption with saddles, thigh straps, and knee pads. Even with pool noodles under my ankles, I find that I can go a maximum of about 1 hr at a time without stopping to get out and walk around a bit. If I don't stop and stretch occasionally, my ankles and feet suffer a lot of pain and go to sleep. A couple of times I have pulled into shore and due to lack of sensation in my feet, have fallen into the water as I tried to get out of the boat. For longer trips with less whitewater, I take out the saddles and use a conventional seat, which is much easier on the feet, but is harder to get your feet under if kneeling. Here is a picture of the outfitting when the boat was new (centre thwart not in place yet).

Image

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Last edited by ice-breaker on May 24th, 2019, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 24th, 2019, 1:26 pm 
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That's a nice looking arrangement of outfitting on your Caption. North Water should used that to promote it's gear. It definitely shows how it all fits together. Interesting you don't have the airbag cage going through the hull. Curious, where that comes from?

It is a shame that so many builders have totally abandoned the WW market since the discontinuation of Royalex. Having come to WW paddling just as Royalex left the market it has been more challenging to learning about models that are no longer in production and that people frequently discuss in these forums. In the Caption it appears, from your image, that it's capacity limits you paddling solo when tripping and playboating when in its tandem configuration (ie. Not much room for gear).

Ice-breaker, Yes, I can totally relate to the leg weakness upon exiting the canoe as I experienced it this past weekend. Pool noodles! I don't see them glued in place in this photo so I assume that it is kept loose? Do you Keep it as one continues piece or two sperate piece? Is it tied in with a bungee so you don't loose it in a captsize or kept free?


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PostPosted: May 24th, 2019, 2:51 pm 
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Dave_k wrote:
That's a nice looking arrangement of outfitting on your Caption. North Water should used that to promote it's gear. It definitely shows how it all fits together. Interesting you don't have the airbag cage going through the hull. Curious, where that comes from?

It is a shame that so many builders have totally abandoned the WW market since the discontinuation of Royalex. Having come to WW paddling just as Royalex left the market it has been more challenging to learning about models that are no longer in production and that people frequently discuss in these forums. In the Caption it appears, from your image, that it's capacity limits you paddling solo when tripping and playboating when in its tandem configuration (ie. Not much room for gear).

Ice-breaker, Yes, I can totally relate to the leg weakness upon exiting the canoe as I experienced it this past weekend. Pool noodles! I don't see them glued in place in this photo so I assume that it is kept loose? Do you Keep it as one continues piece or two sperate piece? Is it tied in with a bungee so you don't loose it in a captsize or kept free?


On my Starburst, I threaded the airbag cages through holes drilled below the gunwales, but since the Caption came with what they called IQ2 (?) gunnels with a slot for either a bag cage or a spray cover, I decided to go with that system. It has been ok, but I would go with the drilled hole method if I did it again. I have paddled solo on countless trips and have room for air bags, a 60L barrel in back, and a large pack in front of me when paddling with only one seat in the centre. The positions of the pedestals are quite adjustable, as they are only strapped onto the daisy chains on the bottom of the hull. When I use the pool noodles, I just tie 2 short pieces of noodle to each other with a short length of rope and run the rope under the pedestal seat. If the rope is short so that the gap between the noodles is only as wide as the pedestal, then there is no risk of foot entrapment. With that approach, the location of the noodles can be changed depending on seat position or size/preference of paddler. You cannot see it in the picture, but I have since added two bilge pumps built into the bottom of one of the pedestal seats and with a small 12V battery, I can pump any water from the boat with a flick of a switch. The batteries are also great for running a small compressor that inflates my airbags.

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"Everyone must believe in something. I believe I'll go canoeing" - Henry David Thoreau


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PostPosted: May 24th, 2019, 3:34 pm 
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Quote:
In the Caption it appears, from your image, that it's capacity limits you paddling solo when tripping and playboating when in its tandem configuration (ie. Not much room for gear).

Ah, how missing one two letter word changes the meaning of the sentence. It should have read.
Quote:
In the Caption it appears, from your image, that it's capacity limits you to paddling solo when tripping and playboating when in its tandem configuration (ie. Not much room for gear).

I do appreciate you setting me straight none the less.

OK Ice-breaker, the short rope running under the saddle connecting the two pieces makes total sense for avoiding foot entrapment. Would you have any recommendation for how you might deal with foot entrapment concerns with seats instead of saddles?
Thanks
Dave


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PostPosted: May 24th, 2019, 4:52 pm 
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Dave_k wrote:
...Would you have any recommendation for how you might deal with foot entrapment concerns with seats instead of saddles?
Thanks
Dave


Don't think that I have any foolproof solutions. Best would be to use a boat with pedestals in really big whitewater. If you do have conventional seats, then make sure that they are high enough off of the bottom of the boat that you can extract your legs easily in the event of a capsize. I wouldn't use pads under my ankles when paddling in whitewater in a boat with seats, as it could be more difficult to extract your legs if needed. Would also be a good idea to practice capsizing in calm water so that you are comfortable getting your legs out from under the seat. If it is difficult to do in calm water, it may not be a good idea to think that you will be able to do so in rough water when the adrenaline is running high. Also, keep any loose items in the bottom of the boat away from your feet as they are sure to get tangled up with you.
regards
dave

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PostPosted: May 24th, 2019, 6:20 pm 
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Dave_k wrote:
Quote:
A strip type kneeling pad gives more legroom that a bigger T-type pad since your feet aren't raised up as high.


Daypaddler. I can't visualize what you're trying to explain.... feet aren't raised as high?


I tried to add a pic but failed repeatedly. Visualize a small kneeling pad about 30 inches wide but less than a foot deep. It will cushion your knees but your feet would still rest on the bottom of the canoe. A larger T-pad might be 30 inches wide and 30 inches deep and it would cushion your knees and your feet would also rest on the pad. The smaller pad doesn't bend your knees quite as much plus it gives you a little bit more room to get your feet under the seat. Make sense?


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