View topic - Long lineup to summit Everest...

It is currently December 6th, 2019, 10:12 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: May 28th, 2019, 8:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 6146
Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
... resulted in a death recently due to the long wait times, in the news. The commercial benefits OTOH are great, with tourism out-earning most of the global resource industries... fisheries, logging, mining... all those combined can't match the $$$ that tourism brings in. Oil and gas still makes more than tourism, jetting and transporting fueling the profits.


Image

_________________
><((((º>


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 28th, 2019, 9:53 am 
Offline

Joined: January 30th, 2018, 12:46 pm
Posts: 81
I don't get it. I've lived most of my life near the Great Lakes. If you visit Denver (the mile high city) the thinness of the air is obvious. If you climb around the Rocky Mountains and get above 9000 feet you will tire easily and wonder what kind of shock you are doing to your body. In my view non-natives simply do not belong at 29,000 feet. 11 deaths this year so far and folks lining up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 28th, 2019, 10:00 am 
Offline

Joined: October 9th, 2009, 9:52 am
Posts: 827
Location: Toronto Beach(es)
Eleven dead on Everest so far this climbing season.

Nepal has issued something like 350 permits this year @ $11k/per, with each climber having a guide, so 700 trying to summit on the few days that weather permits. Between that and the many inexperienced climbers, the push to the summit and back can take longer than the oxygen supplies they carry.

There's talk of much selfishness and little regard for struggling fellow climbers. With line-ups like in the photo, how hard would it be to form a "bucket brigade" to forward O2 cannisters to those ahead who are depleted?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 28th, 2019, 10:18 am 
Offline

Joined: January 30th, 2018, 12:46 pm
Posts: 81
Maybe Nepal issues too many permits. Maybe fellow climbers are selfish. I still think it is the personal responsibility of every climber. If trees don't grow there and goats don't go there maybe it's not a good place to hang out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 28th, 2019, 11:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: February 24th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 507
Location: HFX, Nova Scotia canada
May possibly be the dumbest thing I have ever seen. No regard for their own personal safety or the well being of others who are too stupid to know any better. Climbing mentality is mostly to blame here. How many Everest stories have I read where they had to step over the body of a dead or dying climber on the ascent or descent. Their own ego's drive them on, also the fact that they have paid a lot of $$$ drives them to make poor decisions.

On Everest there is no plan B when things go bad, and they do.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 28th, 2019, 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 21st, 2006, 8:41 pm
Posts: 110
Location: Southern Ontario
You cant blame Nepal for someone wanting to attempt something dangerous, this happens everyday in many different sports/adventure activities. Each person has to be responsible for themselves. Yes there has been 11 deaths this year, but when you look at the history, this is not really all that uncommon, the mountain claims many lives each year. The line up in the pic resulting in the lack of oxygen being the main cause and that specific section is also the coldest which doesn't help. It is not getting up that is the problem, most die on the way back down.
I was once planning to do this with some friends back in the early 90's, not as busy then, but just as dangerous. But I was young back then and did not have the required $40K since my financial backing backed out. Probably better off for it now that I am older and can reflect on it.

As for inexperienced climbers,, the actress Mandy Moore is one of the people lined up to climb so lets see if she makes it. There is no director to yell cut for this scene.

_________________
Outbound2Explore

Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit. ~ Edward Abbey


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 28th, 2019, 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 22nd, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1870
Just for the record, Mandy Moore had NO intentions of climbing to the top of Mt. Everest. She wanted and did hike to an elevation that she felt comfortable with. She's an avid hiker and, to acclimatize herself, she spent several days hiking to the base of Everest. She surprised herself by making it to Base Camp at 17,700 feet. That's further than I did so good on her! I just wanted to see Everest "for real" which I did. But she is younger than I was and in much better shape.

In many cases it is not simple ego that makes high altitude climbers not assist others. On small amounts of oxygen many are no longer thinking human beings. Altitude sickness (AMS) can make many, if not most, unaware of their surroundings and logical thinking abilities are gone. I had the misfortune to lead a small group of non-technical climbers to retrieve the bodies of two young girls who died of AMS. When I asked other hikers about what the hell happened, these girls ignored everyone's advice and just thought that if they made camp and rested, they'd be fine in the morning. I was asked by their families to take care of them until I could get them shipped home. That included attending the autopsies and finding locking caskets. They were not thinking rationally and it killed them. They had spent weeks at sea level on the beach before starting a climb to 17,00 feet.

I blame the Nepalese government for allowing that many climbers on the mountain.
My thoughts
Ted

_________________
To the Silent Places
www.parkerclan.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 29th, 2019, 8:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 3rd, 2014, 4:35 pm
Posts: 304
Makes me appreciate a nice quiet lake all the more....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 30th, 2019, 8:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 6146
Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
interesting to read comments here. This map about 2/3 down at a website describing commercialization of Everest, show the numbers of dead along the route to the summit. Each red flag = a dead body... there must be hundreds. It seems that falls and avalanches are the most common causes of death.

http://www.shelbylindblad.com/point-of-no-return

_________________
><((((º>


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 30th, 2019, 8:46 am 
Offline

Joined: January 30th, 2018, 12:46 pm
Posts: 81
I suppose it's just another form of risk taking and not totally different than paddling over the biggest waterfall you can find.

Regarding the causes of death bar chart that chart looks weird to me. Are cardiac conditions, altitude conditions, exhaustion, and exposure really different things? How about disappeared vs unknown vs other? They ALL sound like "went somewhere you shouldn't have gone" to me.

:tsk:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: May 30th, 2019, 12:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1674
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
frozentripper wrote:
...

Image


That was the most startling image I’ve seen this year, and startling is an inadequate adjective. Just in the D’s, disturbing, dismaying, disgusting. Wait for it; that is a Pulitzer Prize photograph.

My second though is that Hillary and Norgay and all of the climbing pioneers must be spinning in their graves, and Irvine may finally twirl himself out in protest.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: June 1st, 2019, 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 17th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1598
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
This is an absolute bullshit!
It's worse than the portage from Canoe Lake to Joe Lake in Algonquin on a long weekend in the summer!!
Just for a thrill!
No more comments...

_________________
When a new source of taxation is found it never means, in practice, that the old source is abandoned. It merely means that the politicians have two ways of milking the taxpayer where they had one before.
H. L. Mencken


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2019, 1:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: November 7th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Posts: 268
Meh, doesn't look any worse than the East coast.

Alan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: June 4th, 2019, 1:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 20th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3473
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
I follow the happenings on Everest on an annual basis, pretty much every year since the 1996 debacle (see Into Thin Air [book not the movie] by Jon Krakauer).

The best source I've found for intelligent coverage is the blog of Alan Arnette: http://www.alanarnette.com/everest/everest.php

Alan will be issuing his final commentary soon but in the meantime this post from a couple of days ago provides a summary of the issues encountered this season.

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/05 ... he-crowds/

While the crowds and in particular the now famous image by Nims Purja looking up from the Hillary Step are blamed for most of the issues this year the truth is not so simple. While it's true that the sheer numbers hit a new record this year the problems are more related to the very adverse weather conditions and the great increase in the number of inexperienced an/or unprepared climbers combined with the rise of "budget" outfitters who promise a lot for a little and often fail to deliver the clear thinking and organizational skills needed to be successful on the 8000 metre peaks.

It should be noted that in addition to the 11 deaths on Everest there were another 10 on the other 8000m peaks in the area and in those cases crowds did not come into play at all. Most deaths this years were related to altitude sickness and bad weather. The crowding on Everest itself was less due to sheer numbers than to the fact that the poorly prepared just move too slowly and their outfitters/guides are just too hesitant to insist that those who are getting into trouble turn around.

Of the 11 Everest deaths, 6 occurred after a successful summit, of the 21 in the area only 4 were closely related to crowding which caused the summit bids to extend from a "normal" 10 - 12 hours up to as long as 20 hours. that combined with extended periods at the high camps waiting for a break in the weather resulted in a number of altitude illness deaths.

It's not just paying clients anymore, the number of sherpas required and the fact that many of the most experienced are now working in other areas (Denali in the US for example) means that along with inexperienced clients the quality of the support is not at the level it once was.

_________________
"What else could I do? I had no trade so I became a peddler" - Lazarus Greenberg 1915


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: June 5th, 2019, 6:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 29th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 6146
Location: Bancroft, Ontario Canada
Everest news reports stated that business competition to attract in clients and more money results in reduced rates, coming down from the usual $65,000 to $35,000. The lower rates will result in poorer oversight and safety. There is a great need to boost the economy since the 2015 earthquake destroyed about 600,000 homes and buildings along with thousands dead so the government has bigger issues to deal with... bringing in the money to deal with the devastation by any and all means is likely a first priority.

One of the reports described a film being made through the crowds and dead bodies along the route, a Canadian filmmaker documenting the climb to the summit by four Arab women... this might become available once the editing and distribution is done.

_________________
><((((º>


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group