View topic - Nova Craft Tuff Stuff.Royalex replacement?

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PostPosted: November 23rd, 2014, 8:49 am 
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Doug,

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Unfortunately I suspect it's still going to stick to rocks.


I wonder how hull stickiness could be tested for... maybe in a parking lot, attaching spring scales and dragging? On a river (rock garden), how much time is spent swearing on hangups?

I don't have any real experience with Royalex flexing, bouncing and sliding off rocks (did most WW in a kayak, nice and easy), but I can tell you that aluminum canoes have resulted in some absolutely horrible swearing pouring out at times on low northern rivers (we didn't have anything better in those northern bush camps).

<this is Canada, be polite please>

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PostPosted: November 23rd, 2014, 11:08 am 
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My kinda fussy point is that vise and pliers flex testing and hammer blows do not yield repeatable results like Mechanical and Physical Testing Labs so do not allow other to perform the same test on similar or different laminates. I'll grant that the building test is repeatable given roof to ground distance.

I'll also grant that co mingled and co spun Innegra and Basalt are likely to yield a real life replacement for RX, albeit we're going to need to change paddler behavior a little and the hulls will cost more.

The similar combinations of Innegra and Carbon is even more interesting to the upscale market, the data even more impressive but pricing currently similar to all Carbon hulls.

I'm certainly pleased Nova Craft will be using Innegra bi weave too, nothing more quiet than the sound of one hand clapping.


Last edited by Charlie Wilson on November 25th, 2014, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 23rd, 2014, 8:45 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification Tim! I would love to see this material in small solo river tripping boat. A smaller version of the Novacraft Pal with a little more rocker would be a great boat. I'm looking forward to see what develops from Novacraft, Equif and Swift over the next year.


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PostPosted: November 24th, 2014, 4:13 pm 
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The most damage I have ever done to my canoes has come from sharp rocks as opposed to blunt impacts. Those sharp rocks happen to have been in rivers more often than not. So the impact tests are good, a wrap test would be good, but floating down a river and side swiping a sharp chunk of granite or even broken concrete would be just as important for me.

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PostPosted: November 24th, 2014, 10:05 pm 
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Splake wrote:
The most damage I have ever done to my canoes has come from sharp rocks as opposed to blunt impacts. Those sharp rocks happen to have been in rivers more often than not. So the impact tests are good, a wrap test would be good, but floating down a river and side swiping a sharp chunk of granite or even broken concrete would be just as important for me.




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PostPosted: November 25th, 2014, 12:28 pm 
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Tim, thanks so much for your post. We are your customers and love to be educated. It bothers me a bit that you say you are unlikely to post again. Personally, I want to hear from you. I want to know as much as possible about the products I use. When you get involved in the discussion, you have a significant effect on the paddling community.

I know you can't spend your life on this message board. And I know you don't want to appear to be using the forum as a promotional brochure. I also realize much of the information is available on your website. But some of the specific details that we consider important are difficult to find. Please come back with your comments anytime you feel you have something to add.


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PostPosted: February 11th, 2015, 9:24 am 
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Thought everyone might be interested in seeing this video from our friends at MEC in Calgary. Some real world testing of a TuffStuff Expedition Prospector. Actually the same one I originally hit with the sledge. This canoe is living a very hard life! Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXsXRcRgD6Q

Tim


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PostPosted: February 11th, 2015, 10:18 am 
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Awesome video! Looks like they had a lot of fun making the video too! This build looks like a great solution for river trips. When will you come out with pricing , weights and availability?


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PostPosted: February 11th, 2015, 2:46 pm 
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That was a cool video!

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PostPosted: February 11th, 2015, 4:13 pm 
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Um... wow! Now THAT is a test!

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2015, 9:00 am 
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Glad to see that the canoe maker enjoyed the video. I myself turned it off after a minute - I just couldn't watch any more as those guys did what they did to that canoe. My humourless response must be the result of years of treating my own canoes with respect.

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2015, 10:45 am 
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My response was the same as T_N's. Tuff stuff or not, this video is idiotic. Seems like the pleasure and aesthetic of paddling skill (and wet feet) are things of the past. What a shame.


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PostPosted: February 12th, 2015, 11:34 am 
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Great video! I know it isn't controlled lab testing but it's great real world testing of stuff that does happen to whitewater boats. While I doubt that any of us would intentionally abuse a canoe like we see in the video, I don't think I saw anything in the video that I haven't seen or heard about in real life.

A great follow up to the video would be to post some high resolution close up shots of the the damage at the end of the day.

The way the hull shape bounces back after a wrap looks pretty impressive, but it's also clear that the hull is a lot softer at the end of the day than it was at the beginning.

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PostPosted: February 12th, 2015, 11:36 am 
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Glad to see that the canoe maker enjoyed the video. I myself turned it off after a minute - I just couldn't watch any more as those guys did what they did to that canoe. My humourless response must be the result of years of treating my own canoes with respect.

I agree with you and I would not treat my canoe like that either. However the questions being asked about TuffStuff are, "How would it perform in a wrap", "What's it like for abrasion" and "I'd like them to show some real world testing, you know like up here on my river where a canoe has to be a real canoe". So we sent a canoe to our friends at MEC in Calgary and they took a beautiful day in October to find out the answers.

We do not condone this type of canoeing and neither does MEC, but I think the video definitely answers a lot of those questions and that is the spirit in which it was made. All the mistakes and mishaps in this video were done intentionally in areas that were deemed to be safe for recovery if it was needed. Treating your canoe and whitewater paddling with respect is highly recommended. Indeed, absolutely necessary in wilderness settings.

On the other hand, slapstick and stupidity has always had a humorous side. Just ask the Three Stooges who I grew up with. I think it was in that vain that our friends staged all these "real world" events.

BTW - none of the damage would be covered by warranty. :D

Cheers, Tim


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PostPosted: February 12th, 2015, 12:22 pm 
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Me, I enjoyed seeing the torture test... surely a day spent paddling can't get any worse than that. Surely nobody is insane enough to treat their canoes that badly in the real world... is there?

Welcome to the dark side, we have TuffStuff.

8)

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