View topic - Spray Deck install - patch location - assistance please

It is currently November 30th, 2020, 6:03 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: August 4th, 2019, 11:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 25th, 2017, 3:02 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Yah, I should have started sooner instead of leaving it to the long weekend before we leave on our canoe trip.

I'm working on installing a new North Water spray deck on my tandem and they're obviously not open for me to ask this question of them. The instructions say to drill the holes through the hull 5.5" down from the gunnel so that a thin rope loop secured to a vinyl patch (see attached image) can be fed through which is used for securing the spray deck to the hull. Well drilling 5.5' down would have me putting holes through the closed foam cell that are run the side walls from bow seat to stern seat. Not a problem in the summer but if some water got in and the the canoe was exposed to freezing temperature that could lead to delamination of the hull.

So my question is. What are the ramifications of raising the holes along the mid section of the canoe to say 4.5 or 4" down from the gunnel instead of 5.5 " and missing the closed foam cell. Will it compromise how securely the spray deck fits to the canoe? I just don't know what the down side is.

The one suggestion that I have received is that if I did drill through the foam cell to use a automotive urethane adhesive instead of the vinyl-tec adhesive that was supplied. This adhesive is supper strong and is cured with water I'm told yet remains somewhat flexible and thus potentially would seal out the water from coming in.

So I need to start it later today or tomorrow so I welcome the wisdom on the forum to help guide me.
thanks
Dave


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 4th, 2019, 11:46 am 
Offline

Joined: June 28th, 2001, 7:00 pm
Posts: 1825
Location: Freeland, Maryland USA
Dave, I don’t think an inch or inch and a half difference in the location of those holes will make a critical difference. The sides of the covers will still be the same distance below the outwale; you would need to adjust the cord to a slightly sharper V with a higher loop patch.

Dave_k wrote:
The one suggestion that I have received is that if I did drill through the foam cell to use a automotive urethane adhesive instead of the vinyl-tec adhesive that was supplied. This adhesive is supper strong and is cured with water I'm told yet remains somewhat flexible and thus potentially would seal out the water from coming in.


With the vinyl loop pad sealing the interior side of the holes my concern, like yours, would be water infiltrating the foam from outside the hull. Some pliably sealant “might” seal those holes around the cord loop, but it would be an unverifiable “might”, especially with tension and wear potentially developing over time on the loop holes.

If you haven’t already begun, can you do a test install with the cover using pieces of tape to hold the spray cover perimeter line down V V V V V V to see how it looks.

EDIT: Please let us know what you do and the results.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 4th, 2019, 3:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 25th, 2017, 3:02 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Mike, thanks for the input. I think I'm inclined to agree with you. I'm just starting in on the bow and stern patches that can be placed the 5.5" down from the gunnel as instructed. I won't get to the mid-hull patches in question until later thus leaving this question open to someone to propose another point of view.
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 4th, 2019, 5:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 20th, 2003, 9:27 am
Posts: 975
Dave,
I have some limited experience installing spray deck patches so take my opinion fwiw.
I agree with Mike. It should not matter how far down the patch is because the cord that runs through the deck and patches should equalize the forces holding the deck in place. If I recall, the amount of material that hangs down over the side of the canoe is less than 5.5 inches and the amount that hangs over the side is variable depending upon your load. I suspect that they have discovered that the 5.5 inches is optimal when the load is small and the deck is pulled down as tightly as it will go, however, I think you will be fine with slightly less distance in a few places.
I would be more reluctant to drill holes through my foam core than to try a slightly smaller distance in a few places.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 5th, 2019, 9:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
Posts: 1974
Location: Manitoba
5.5 inches is a guide.
Put the spray deck on and see how it fits. The key is to keep the loop patches above the waterline and to keep they below the spray deck so that the lacing forms a V pattern. Maybe 5” below the gunwales is ideal but a slightly shallower or steeper V pattern should be fine.

_________________
Brian
http://www.JohnstonPursuits.ca

 


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 6th, 2019, 8:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 25th, 2017, 3:02 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Well, it installed. Thanks to those who responded for the guidance. I raised the hole for the loop patches to 4.25" inches in the area from bow seat to Stern seat.. Thankfully the rope on the loop patches is short. It hold the decking in place. The 5.5" inches would provided a snugger fit.

FYI. Based on some advice I received in case I did drill through foam cells below the gunnel I bought and installed the loop patch in the first three rows of the bow and stern with a Polyurethane Adhesive Sealant. It is black and messy so I used disposable gloves. As advised I used automotive masking take and cut a circular area around the patch so that when the black adhesive was squeezed out the sides it wouldn't made a mess on the hull interior. It seemed tougher to work with and the masking took a while. I made the mistake of using a single patch to create every masking tape masked and all patches are not cut identically. I worked but wasn't perfect. I used the Vinyl Tech provided for another couple of the patches and found it easier to work with and created a better looking result so I applied it the remaining patches. We will see if there is any difference in how they hold up. The patches with the Polyurethane will be behind the bow and stern air bags so I won't need to look at them as often. ;-). Another recommendation was to use Stabond instead of the Vinyl Tech but I didn't have a chance to source any of that. Now on with the paddling and using this spray deck.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: July 14th, 2020, 1:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 21st, 2020, 2:09 am
Posts: 32
Location: British Columbia
Who has experience with this system and the ladder lock webbing system? Why go with one over the other?


This video isn't really what you were asking about but might be helpful for someone else who finds this thread

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=rzg8gZV1Qo0&feature=emb_logo[/youtube]

Does look like it's going to embed the video...maybe someone wants to tell me what I'm doing wrong


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: July 14th, 2020, 3:09 am 
Offline

Joined: June 7th, 2012, 1:10 pm
Posts: 67
fixed. Used [URL] rathe than [youtube]

North Water Spray Deck Installation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=rzg8gZV1Qo0&feature=emb_logo

_________________
 


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: July 14th, 2020, 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: July 21st, 2004, 7:58 pm
Posts: 521
My limited experience is that the webbing system with individual straps makes it easier to get at gear in the middle of the boat, since they are 2-part and you just have to undo a few straps to have total access. The cord-based systems generally have a zip opening to accomplish the same thing. One additional risk of the strap system is that if there is an accident and a dump if there is damage to one strap water pressure can break more straps and the whole system unzip from the boat. Never seen this myself, but have had it reliably reported. My one pin with a decked boat, the deck held everything together until we got the boat unstuck. An undecked boat would have been toast.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: July 15th, 2020, 12:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 25th, 2017, 3:02 pm
Posts: 139
Location: Guelph, Ontario
When I talked to Morgan at Northwater about it he said they have their preferred system which is the default and that the Ladder lock/rivets is an option for those who request it. If I recall correctly the draw backs to the Ladder lock were that it didn’t provide the same flexiblity if the canoe was loaded over the gunnels, The snaps on the rivets were a pain to deal with in cold and dirty conditions. There might have been other points but I can’t recall them at this instance.
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 5th, 2020, 1:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 21st, 2020, 2:09 am
Posts: 32
Location: British Columbia
Peter K. wrote:
One additional risk of the strap system is that if there is an accident and a dump if there is damage to one strap water pressure can break more straps and the whole system unzip from the boat. Never seen this myself, but have had it reliably reported. My one pin with a decked boat, the deck held everything together until we got the boat unstuck. An undecked boat would have been toast.


That's not any different than the laced system though is it? If the lace breaks or one of the glue in eyes break you'll have the same problem.

Dave_k wrote:
If I recall correctly the draw backs to the Ladder lock were that it didn’t provide the same flexiblity if the canoe was loaded over the gunnels, The snaps on the rivets were a pain to deal with in cold and dirty conditions. There might have been other points but I can’t recall them at this instance.


oh I though that the ladder lock system had straps you would tighten and lock with double Ds or something. I didn't know they were snaps. I know some people put snaps down their gunwales and put deck on that way though - i see that being a pain. I was thing that the big zipper to access everything is then likely to jam when dirty and be hard to close sometimes if you're really loaded


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 5th, 2020, 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 11:21 pm
Posts: 1136
Location: Burns Lake, BC
Another option to attach a Northwater skirt is to have a perimeter of bungee cord with small s-hooks permanently attached to the skirt.
Pull the hook on the bungee and hook it to the hull loop.

Your skirt goes on in two minutes now instead of 10 or 20.
The bungee also allows for larger loads while always being taught.
Undo 2-4 hooks and you have quick and easy access to the gear inside.

We have two Northwater skirts and one Cooke Custom Sewing skirt.
If I ever need another it will be a CCS.

If you search Canoeheadted and Northwater skirts you will find where I posted all the information about the bungee attachments.
We also had the skirt designed to fit our Hellman Prospector and our Clipper Tripper.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: August 6th, 2020, 5:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 21st, 2020, 2:09 am
Posts: 32
Location: British Columbia
I think I found your thread but the pictures were working anymore. I don’t think I’d trust that in whitewater either. Great for lakes and smaller river though for sure


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group