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 Post subject: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2014, 8:43 am 
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Joined: July 29th, 2011, 7:17 pm
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In July my wife and daughter will be traveling through Algonquin park for 11 days with another family of three. We will be bringing three MSR dragonfly stoves. Based on the manufacturers specs of 300ml / hr of white gas and a liberal estimate of cooking / baking time, I came up with a total of eleven liters of fuel. This seems offaly high to me. What do you folks think?

Jason


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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2014, 11:09 am 
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Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:47 pm
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Location: Rattlesnake Pond ME
offal takes a while to tenderize. :D

Baking does eat up fuel. 1 liter will run you 3.3 hours on one stove. 11 liters will run you 36.3 hours on one stove.. about 12 on each of 3.

You are running stoves for over an hour a day so your cooking times are quite long.

Whats on the menu?


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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2014, 1:01 pm 
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Joined: January 11th, 2005, 4:58 pm
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Location: Manitoba
It will depend on air temp, wind conditions, menu, hot drinks, dish water, water temp, style of cooking, number of cooked meals per day, multi course meals with soups and desserts or one pot wonders, efficiency and organization (idling), and so on.

I have used 1/10 L per person per day for years. That's 5.5 L if I got your trip specs correct.
I used to use 1/8 L per person per day and always had left over fuel (a good thing). That's rate would be almost 7 L.

If it was my trip, with similar specs I'd take two gallon cans, which is really about 7.6 L.

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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2014, 3:18 pm 
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Joined: December 19th, 2011, 4:44 pm
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Location: Waterloo, ON
1 Dragonfly stove cooking for 2 people = 1L/week max. (including coffee & afternoon tea, etc...) This assumes primarily dehydrated meals - simmered 15-20 mins from dry state & NOT pre-hydrated while paddling. You can do the math from there.

If you're dehydrating your food you can save a lot of fuel by rehydrating in a Nalgene or similar bottle. Add water after breakfast & you'll only have to heat it up when you make camp. Very quick & easy.

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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2014, 3:35 pm 
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Joined: August 15th, 2004, 10:00 am
Posts: 156
Location: St. Thomas,Ont
I have done numerous trips with with scout groups 10-14 people
of 7 days duration. I typically take 6 -8 30 oz bottles of fuel and
have always brought home 2 to three full bottles. All of our food
is dehydrated. We usually cook only at breakfast and supper. Lots
of coffee and baking.

Regards Randall


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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 3rd, 2014, 6:36 pm 
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Joined: February 17th, 2014, 11:51 am
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When I used to take out my two kids camping while they were younger, we went through a lot more fuel than I normally do now.

Could be the demand for pancakes every morning coupled with coffee addicted adults trying to keep on top of things while the murder-munchkins (a.ka., my children) demanded two hot chocolates (with added marshmallows - and they better be melty!!!). Is it lunch yet? Is it dinner yet? Are we going to have peach cobbler again? Daughter with pouty eyes - 'Dad I found 2 blueberries, can you make me a blueberry muffin', blink, blink, 'NOW!'

I guess it all depends on your trip. Are you doing 11 d backcountry or will you be making check point stops with access back to your vehicle? If the latter, bring extra fuel. If the former, I'd suggest planning your meals out first and work your way back to your fuel needs. Also, it might be possible to offset some fuel needs by augmenting cooking with campfire. This is trading one set of conveniences (weight & packing space) for another (time and preparation for fire cooking) but could balance out your needs.


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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 8th, 2014, 7:41 am 
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Joined: July 29th, 2011, 7:17 pm
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Thanks for all your input. Lots of great ideas.

Jason


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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 24th, 2014, 7:56 pm 
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Joined: November 14th, 2013, 10:24 pm
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Location: Huntsville Ont.
11 litres seems excessive, or maybe I am thinking of the weight. On a solo trip 24 lbs. weighs more than my kitchen and food pack for a six day excursion. My fuel use is always under 30 fl.oz. with no supplementation from campfires. I travel far and light so every lb. counts but if you are not doing too much travelling bring along the extra fuel. If you are concerned about running out pick up some Aquatabs or Pristine drops to treat your dishwater. We all know the benefits of boiling water but warm dishwater is not a guarantee for killing bacteria. But this is a moot point, you have the extra hands for portaging so why not put them to use.

Enjoy yourself Jason.


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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 25th, 2014, 6:40 am 
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Joined: January 22nd, 2005, 12:16 pm
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Location: Toronto
I agree with
1/10 of a litre per person per day
but with the following qualifications
1. barrenlands travel (no wood)
2. no baking

EDIT:
Should have said that the above figure is for a group of at least 4.
As HOOP says, a solo tripper will use more.
In the barrens, finding twigs, etc for a stick stove is very time-consuming.

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Last edited by Allan Jacobs on June 26th, 2014, 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 25th, 2014, 6:50 pm 
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I try to keep track of such things and over the years have found that with my Peak 1 there is a litre used every 4 days solo. I just returned from a trip with 5 and we used a litre per day. This was doing some actual cooking; baking, fish fries, boiled coffee and hot water for dishes. If you do not use a wind screen or get hit with some cold windy weather it will be even more. We have had a mixture of stoves on some trips and there did not seem to be much difference in consumption.

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 Post subject: Re: How much fuel
PostPosted: June 25th, 2014, 10:49 pm 
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Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
Ditto what Marten said for solo. I have the same stove, and travel with what sounds like a similar solo style of cooking, including heating some extra water in the pot for dishes, after I have a hot coffee after dinner. My Coleman has the Coleman dedicated wind screen designed for that stove and the old Apex burner. Normally I use fire whenever possible, but on really wet days wet days, and when up on the Barrens with no wood supply, I am using a stove. I am always solo.

If its cold and very windy up on the Barrens, I average 200-250 ml's white gas per day (1L per 4-5 days). If its mild and I can shield the stove from the winds, I have stretched that to 167 ml per day (1L per 6 days). This calculation is the result of hundreds of solo person days, so I am confident with that number.

I dehydrate my own one pot meal dinners, requiring a boil followed by a simmer of about 20 minutes or so, maybe 25 min. I imagine that the commercial dehydrated boil in bag meal people (who like a lot of salt with their meal :D ), will use less fuel, since its only a boil of 500-600 mls of water, and then you use the bag cozy to let it self heat into whatever its supposed to turn into.

I hypothesize that solo people would use more fuel per person-day because of the economy of pot/pan size and heat needed. In other words, I predict that if two people were sharing meals using a 2-person pot and pan system that has a larger surface area on the pot/pan bottom, that two could cook for just a tad more fuel that one person would need. As long as the meals were shared, 4 people could cook for less fuel per person than 2, etc.

If I graphed a fuel per person consumption model, with the Y axis being fuel volume per day, and X axis being number of people, then I predict the line would slope down to the right. A hypothesis that could be tested.

I predict that if you cook/rehydrate "real food", and include fish frying, bannock baking, fried breakfasts with eggs and pancakes, and stuff like that, then you will consume 2-3 times the fuel/day that a person who only uses food like instant oatmeal in the morning, energy bars for lunch, and boil in bag meals in the evening. Some people are one cup of coffee/tea types, some guzzle multiple cups of the stuff per meal (like me), and that fuel use to boil that water really adds up. Add in water decontamination methods (drink straight or filter vs. boil), then there is another big variable. If you are within tree line in the boreal where there is usually lots of free wood fuel, and you are a capable axe/saw/knife fire making type, then you can get by with far less stove fuel (if there is no fire ban on, and you are outside of Manitoba! :wink: ) Lots of variables that I think makes it impossible to peg a consistent number per person across all tripping styles and group sizes. But the input you have received on this thread will be useful to help bracket your estimates.

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 Post subject: Mission Improbable
PostPosted: June 26th, 2014, 4:19 am 
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Joined: February 19th, 2004, 9:53 pm
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Location: Atlanta
:doh: How did Mr. "T" light off his SVEA?




:evil: "FOOL!"


I should find my SVEAs and see if they still sound like V-1s. Offal. :rofl:


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