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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 10:38 am 
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Erhard wrote:
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I will repeat that using a pot larger than recommended is a very unsafe practice....

We heard you the first time and no one is disputing that.
What is at issue is the size that will fit on a particular stove, and you seem convinced that any pot over two litres is too large for a stove like the Dragonfly. In my experience, it's a safe setup to have a six-person pot on such a stove as long as one places the wind screen so that the fuel tank is shielded. I am sure you can agree with that if you try it.


Erhard - Call George and ask him about his setup and what happened. Then you'll know. It is irresponsible of you to recommend anything larger than what even the manufacturer states is safe. Just because you've been lucky and you think it is safe doesn't mean it is. Actually I'll see if George's original post on the type of stove still exists and post the link here.

As I stated... "MSR does have a pot size limit. If you go to http://www.msrcorp.com/support/pdfs/DF-StoveInst_EN.pdf and read section six - MSR states that the cookware diameter is 9 inches or 23 centimetres maximum. Many pots above the 2 litre size are greater in diameter and can cause problems."


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 10:42 am 
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Actually you have been disputing this by saying a large pot is safe in your experience... I am sure George had a great deal of experience too.

Read this Erhard...

http://www.myccr.com/SectionForums/view ... dent+stove

granted the windshield wasn't properly in place to protect the tank - but that only offers limited protection. in doing research for the book we talked to several experts, including someone involved with MSR, and they felt that this stove would have exploded regardless and the biggest issue was length of the line and the large pot.

edited 2 times - once to correct the url and secondly to replace the word "size" with "length" for accuracy


Last edited by Laurie March on November 12th, 2007, 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 10:45 am 
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Nice looking food, WC!


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 10:48 am 
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Well, after 16 years of using 2 part stoves, with and without windscreens, my experience and simple physics will disagree with there being a danger with a properly placed windscreen. I trip a whole lot in a whole lot of varied environments and the ONLY time that I've had problems with overheating fuel cannisters on a two-part stove was when I got lazy and did not start off with the windscreen protecting the fuel bottle. That has not only been my experience, but the experience of all the other hard-core trippers that I've discussed this issue with. So let's agree to disagree.

I'm not knocking your cooking expertise - just most everyone elses! We don't have a master chef, like you, on staff. For us, simple one-pot, one-stove meals are the norm after a long tiring day on the water, often in poor and cold weather. When the cook is bone tired and the crew getting cranky, then simple one-pots work.

Your level of outdoor cooking expertise has to be worked up to. I think that Raymond needs to think simple at the beginning.

cheers Ted

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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 10:56 am 
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Ted wrote:

I'm not knocking your cooking expertise - just most everyone elses! We don't have a master chef, like you, on staff. For us, simple one-pot, one-stove meals are the norm after a long tiring day on the water, often in poor and cold weather. When the cook is bone tired and the crew getting cranky, then simple one-pots work.

Your level of outdoor cooking expertise has to be worked up to. I think that Raymond needs to think simple at the beginning.

cheers Ted


:P kind of assuming a lot about how I cook aren't you Ted? :wink: (I'm teasing you)

my cooking is easy - it isn't rocket science (although with a Dragonfly it sometimes sounds like it - lol). you cook a normal meal at home, dry it in an oven or food dehydrator and rehydrate it in the field... while others take time messing around with ingredients I'm relaxing - for 75% of my camp cooking it is a one pot (or two if there is a group larger than 3 or 4). I simply add boiling water and rehydrate - so I'd say my methods make for less fuss at camp, less food weight because of the drying, less fuel weight than most traditional methods.

Keep in mind I am also a backpacker which means on some of my adventures I don't have the luxury of being able to take a lot of kitchen gear or food weight or fuel weight... and at 15 km or more of hiking in a day - the lightweight approach is best in that case. I've simple applied that to paddling trips as well.


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 11:10 am 
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******* wrote:
...
Erhard - Call George and ask him about his setup and what happened. Then you'll know. It is irresponsible of you to recommend anything larger than what even the manufacturer states is safe. Just because you've been lucky and you think it is safe doesn't mean it is. Actually I'll see if George's original post on the type of stove still exists and post the link here.

As I stated... "MSR does have a pot size limit. If you go to http://www.msrcorp.com/support/pdfs/DF-StoveInst_EN.pdf and read section six - MSR states that the cookware diameter is 9 inches or 23 centimetres maximum. Many pots above the 2 litre size are greater in diameter and can cause problems."

THank you for locating the specific MSR instruction. I'll quote it precisely:
Quote:
Separate Burner and Fuel Bottle with the Windscreen. An overheated
Fuel Bottle can explode and burn or injure you. Never use cookware with a
diameter greater than 9 inches (23 centimeters). Large cookware reflects excessive heat. Never operate stove with empty or dry pots.


You are putting the quotes in the wrong place and make it look like MSR says "Many pots above the 2 litre size are greater in diameter and can cause problems."
That's your wording, not MSR's. Do you have a 6-man pot that is larger than the limit given?

Still - nice food! :wink:


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 11:18 am 
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Erhard wrote:
******* wrote:
...
Erhard - Call George and ask him about his setup and what happened. Then you'll know. It is irresponsible of you to recommend anything larger than what even the manufacturer states is safe. Just because you've been lucky and you think it is safe doesn't mean it is. Actually I'll see if George's original post on the type of stove still exists and post the link here.

As I stated... "MSR does have a pot size limit. If you go to http://www.msrcorp.com/support/pdfs/DF-StoveInst_EN.pdf and read section six - MSR states that the cookware diameter is 9 inches or 23 centimetres maximum. Many pots above the 2 litre size are greater in diameter and can cause problems."

THank you for locating the specific MSR instruction. I'll quote it precisely:
Quote:
Separate Burner and Fuel Bottle with the Windscreen. An overheated
Fuel Bottle can explode and burn or injure you. Never use cookware with a
diameter greater than 9 inches (23 centimeters). Large cookware reflects excessive heat. Never operate stove with empty or dry pots.


You are putting the quotes in the wrong place and make it look like MSR says "Many pots above the 2 litre size are greater in diameter and can cause problems."
That's your wording, not MSR's. Do you have a 6-man pot that is larger than the limit given?

Still - nice food! :wink:


The quotes are not in the wrong place - I am quoting what I typed which included a link to MSR because it seemed you glossed over it the first time. You really like to twist things don't you Erhard? Rhetorical don't bother answering.

Thanks for the comment on the photos.


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 11:28 am 
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******* wrote:
The quotes are not in the wrong place - I am quoting what I typed which included a link to MSR because it seemed you glossed over it the first time. You really like to twist things don't you Erhard?....

I went to the MSR pdf and copied/pasted the text. Musta made a mistake, in your eyes!? Oh well, I'll leave it at that....

Ray:
Back to the issue: a six-man pot is fine (check that it's no more than 9 inches wide if you have the dragonfly), make sure your windscreen separates the tank from the burner, and take as many other pots along as you see fit!

Cheers,
...............Erhard


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 12:12 pm 
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I'm a bit late here but I just checked my Dragonfly instruction sheet. Yep 9 inches.
I also checked the bottom of my three 5-liter pots and they are 9 inches as well.
So the question is not the MSR legality of a 5 liter pot, it is the legality of using frying pans as in real frying pans, not those lid thingys.

edit: As an aside, I feel that two main reasons that I've never had problems is that I religiously use a windscreen paying more attention to the fuel bottle than the wind and that I take my stove apart every year and give it a good tune-up including a new fuel bottle gasket.
cheers Ted

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Last edited by Ted on November 12th, 2007, 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 12:16 pm 
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Ted wrote:
I'm a bit late here but I just checked my Dragonfly instruction sheet. Yep 9 inches.
I also checked the bottom of my three 5-liter pots and they are 9 inches as well.
So the question is not the MSR legality of a 5 liter pot, it is the legality of using frying pans as in real frying pans, not those lid thingys.

cheers Ted


that's perfect Ted - my 5 litre pots (both of them) are 10 inches.


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 12:22 pm 
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******* wrote:
...
that's perfect Ted - my 5 litre pots (both of them) are 10 inches.


I guess you'll have to throw them out, then. That's the curse of expensive equipment, I presume! :wink:
(My own 5l pot is 9" as well, just like Ted's. WC, do you have a weblink that shows us those pots so we can remember what to stay away from?)


Last edited by Erhard on November 12th, 2007, 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 12:23 pm 
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Location: toronto, Ontario canada
Find a local restaurant supply store. You can likely find a stock pot that fits your needs & restrictions.


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 12:33 pm 
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Erhard wrote:
******* wrote:
...
that's perfect Ted - my 5 litre pots (both of them) are 10 inches.


I guess you'll have to throw them out, then. That's the curse of expensive equipment, I presume! :wink:
(My own 5l pot is 9" as well, just like Ted's. WC, do you have a weblink that shows us those pots so we can remember what to stay away from?)


No need to be a jerk Erhard. Actually they are cheap pots - and I don't know the manufacturer because there is no mark on them. I prefer to use MSR cooksets such as the Duralite and they do fall into the guidelines.

I still stand by my warning about many large size pots and that is why I posted the sizing recommended by MSR.


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 1:07 pm 
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Location: Cornwall Ont
Just curious, could this be safely used according to the stove manufactar. I have been using the Outback oven on my Dragonfly. Is there a risk in doing so?
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_deta ... 4302696309


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PostPosted: November 12th, 2007, 1:51 pm 
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Carbritkye, my personal opinion is no, there is no danger. I believe the remote possibility of a danger lies when the stoves are on full blast, boiling water for example. When using an OutBack Oven, the stove is at real low simmer.
The only thing that I am always careful of is the proximity of the fuel bottle. When using my OBO, I still use the windscreen between the fuel bottle and the oven. The oven does a good job of wind protection.

I gave up on my OBO when I quit making birthday cakes for my daughter. A few weeks ago then tripping with LittleRedCanoe I got a lesson in goodies. One day it was brownies, another the biggest gooiest cinnamon buns ever. So maybe I'll dig out my oven and some recipes and rethink light weight vs. good eating.

cheers Ted

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