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PostPosted: December 29th, 2007, 10:40 pm 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
Evaporated milk is often substituted for cream.

There is evaporated cream but it has the consistency of sour cream so its a little thick for coffee. Ought to be in your supermarket.

Image

Since cream is 36 percent butterfat, no you cant dehydrate it..all it does is get thicker.

How long is your trip? Take a cooler and wrap the container in a wet towel. Evaporative cooling works very well even for weeks.



Might be a little thick for coffee but goes absolutely wonderfully on fresh berries or jam (partridgeberry or squashberry especially) ....or a fresh pie....ohhh yummmmmmm!

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2007, 9:02 pm 
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littleredcanoe wrote:
Evap cooling works in the desert and in the boreal forest. I forget about Algonquin and its weeks of summer steam baths... still ought to be ok if kept in the shade. Those little creamers I think are ultrapasteurized. I think they dont need to be kept real cool.


Just something I thought I'd add about evaporative cooling. It's a great way to cool down your water (or beer) to more palatable temps, but don't count on it to protect perishables from bacteria under any conditions.

I use a sling psychrometer for measuring the relative humidity in my repair shop during the heating season. I do this so that I don't accidentally cause a crack in someone's cherished guitar or violin. It has two thermometers, a dry bulb and a wet bulb (which has a wick covering which you wet with distilled water). By simultaneously whirling the two in the air I get get two different readings. The difference, caused by evaporative cooling of the wet bulb thermometer is called the wet bulb depression. That difference is the exact maximum of cooling degrees that you can achieve for a given temperature, humidity and air pressure.

For example, at 90 degrees F (32 C), barometric pressure at 30" of mercury and a relative humidity of 35% (a fairly dry, bright blue sky summer afternoon) the wet bulb depression is 20 degrees F ( 11 C), which only brings the temp down to 70 F (21 C), about room temp and nowhere near safe for long term food storage. On a muggy day of about 55% relative humidity, the best you will achieve (while twirling your food overhead and covered in a highly evaporative cloth soaked in distilled water) is a mere 77 F (25 C).... downright dangerous.

The problem gets worse as the temp drops until somewhere in the middle of the night dew is formed and no evaporative cooling can take place. At that point, your food can only get as cold as the ambient air temp unless the lake/river is cooler and you are able to submerge your food. There is no getting around this, it's our old friend physics messing with canoeists once again. :wink:

Here is a link to some psychrometric tables so you can make your own decisions. Just figure on 30" of mercury (pressure isn't a major factor in these determinations) and use the relative humidity tables at the bottom as this is what is usually quoted in weather reports.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/elp/psych/psych.html

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2007, 9:44 pm 
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m and m wrote:
Hi,I am pretty sure that the can of heavy cream pictured a couple of posts back says right on the can "not for use in hot drinks'. I think it breaks and goes all greasy. It makes a terrific dessert if you layer with chocolate biscuits and stewed dried apricots.

Yup, I checked out the Carnation Thick Cream in the store, and it does indeed say not to use in coffee or tea.

There is a different product called Evaporated Milk by Carnation, also sold in cans. I've never used it.

I'm a confirmed coffee with cream person at home, but out camping....the CoffeeMate powder is what I use. It doesn't cool the coffee down, and you need to use less sugar, but other than those two things which I never remember until after the first coffee of the trip, it's just fine.

Barbara

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PostPosted: December 30th, 2007, 10:10 pm 
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I use canned evaporated milk quite a bit for camp soups and chowders. Its got a creamy consistency but the taste is a little different than cream. I like it but everyone has their own taste.

It makes one killer corn and clam chowder.

The evaporated cream thing makes me grateful for liking coffee black. The problem with evaporated milk is it comes in fairly large cans mostly. I havent seen a little can in quite a while. The larger cans would whiten coffee for about twelve people


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PostPosted: December 31st, 2007, 6:02 pm 
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Barbara wrote:
There is a different product called Evaporated Milk by Carnation, also sold in cans. I've never used it.


:x

Do yourself a favor and keep it out of your coffee. Especially if you like the taste of cream. My wife uses the stuff in her yummy pumpkin pies and it's fine for that, but stick with the creamer for your fine Arabicas.

Evaporated milk reminds me of my maternal grandmother. 30-40 cups of percolated joe a day laced with liberal doses of evap milk and sugar. These were accompanied by 4 packs of unfiltered Raleighs (she used to give me the coupons in return for forcing me to scratch her scaly old back :x :x ). I never saw her eat. I think she subsisted on coffee and tobacco and frequent trips to the toilet for exercise. She lived to be over eighty in spite of suffering from heart failure for over a dozen years. A tough-as-nails old Cornish woman... with very yellow fingers.

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PostPosted: December 31st, 2007, 7:42 pm 
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I would NEVER consider putting that stuff in my coffee. :o You're right, that's all I've ever heard it used for....making pumpkin pie. Yech.

My grandmother smoked, though not as much, and drank buttermilk. Bingo and horse racing and going to Mass on Sundays....kept her going until she was 89. After she fell and was put in the hospital, and couldn't do any of that stuff, she just faded away.



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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2008, 1:22 pm 
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Those folks at University of Minnesota are darn smart......here's the definitive answer:
oh the question was: Why don't individual creamers need to be refrigerated?



Quote:
The cream we buy for use at home is a mixture of milk solids including fat, protein, lactose (milk sugar) and water. Heavier cream has more fat content, but the fat has little to do with shelf life; it is the protein/water/sugar phase that rules. Such mixtures are subject to degradation by bacteria which grow in the water phase and digest the milk components to produce off flavors and odors. The bacteria metabolize the components or produce enzymes that they excrete into the aqueous (water) environment that then attack the dairy ingredients. The higher the temperature, the faster this occurs. In fact the degradation rate is about 25 times faster at room temperature than in a refrigerator, so 1 hour at room temperature can reduce shelf life by one day.

In the 1930s we introduced the process of pasteurization to kill pathogens in milk. The pasteurization process also kills some of the spoilage bacteria, so the shelf life of dairy products was extended if the products were kept refrigerated. Then, the concept of higher temperature shorter time processing (HTST) was introduced, which killed the same amount of pathogens and spoilage bacteria via higher temp/shorter times. This method produced a higher quality because the other factors that caused off flavor had a smaller temperature response, that is the loss rate of some quality factors increased to a lesser extent.

Unfortunately this was not true for those degradative enzymes that cause serious off flavors, because they are more heat resistant. Thus companies began to create UHT processes (ultra high temperature- short time processes) that for things like cream kill the pathogens and spoilage organisms as well as inactivate the spoilage enzymes. They also found packaging materials that keep out oxygen and can be filled without contamination. This process allows individual creamers to be kept at room temperature for extended times, in many cases from 6 to 9 months. But my recommendation for food service operations is to keep it refrigerated until serving anyway. Cream in containers will eventually gel because of interactions of the proteins or will turn brown with off flavors due to lactose/protein reactions. Refrigerating the cream containers, although not necessary for safety, is extra quality insurance.

Ted Labuza– Professor Ted Labuza is a Morse Alumni Distinguished Teaching Professor of Food Science and Nutrition

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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2008, 2:20 pm 
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Gail,

OK you brought up coffee creamer containers so here's the brain teazer:

You buy a cup of coffee with separate creamer. You're planning to drink it away from where you bought it. Here's the question. In order to have it as hot as possible when you do drink it,should you add the creamer immediately or wait till you are ready to drink it ? Or does it make a difference ?


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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2008, 2:30 pm 
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CT....another one of 'dem add 2 cups to a bucket questions?
darn don't you make me look stupid.....
oh well....here goes.
250 mls of coffee, 5 mls of cream
time for cream to reach room temperature...well didn't I just say you didn't have to refrigerate them.....so we're already at room temp....so rate of heat loss to the cream will be equal to the rate of loss to the air so it doesn't matter :P

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PostPosted: April 22nd, 2008, 5:23 pm 
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Ah negatory on that answer Gail. No need to go into volumes on this one. Just let an apple fall on your head .


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PostPosted: April 23rd, 2008, 4:45 am 
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The rate of heat transfer is proportional to the temperature differential - hot things lose heat at a faster rate than not-so-hot things.
Adding the creamer immediately cools the coffee, slowing its heat-loss rate. Because it's been losing heat at a slower rate than it would have been if you hadn't added the creamer right away it's warmer when you finally drink it.


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PostPosted: April 23rd, 2008, 11:07 am 
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Krusty's got it right.


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