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PostPosted: February 4th, 2008, 8:13 pm 
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******* wrote:
..you also need some protein and not animal forms are much better - especially when you are on long and strenuous trips...

Foods like lentils for example. This is why I stressed a combination of foods. Oatmeal is good for that quick burst but it has been proven that we need more than that quick fix. Refer to the link I posted earlier.

For example... from http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=52

about lentils... "their high fiber content prevents blood sugar levels from rising rapidly after a meal. But this is far from all lentils have to offer. Lentils also provide good to excellent amounts of six important minerals, two B-vitamins, and protein."

and

"In addition to providing slow burning complex carbohydrates, lentils can increase your energy by replenishing your iron stores."

the slow release is beneficial especially when portaging and hiking... so let's say one has oatmeal for breakfast - adding some lentils at lunch and then a snack of something like an oatmeal based bar will give you the balance needed - and you won't hit that wall where you lack energy

I've found more evidence supporting foods like quinoa and lentils than I have found disputing it.


WC, what is it with you and lentils? :lol:

Yes, lentils are good for you and I think they taste great. One of my favorite foods is homemade lentil soup with lots of onions, garlic, bacon and fresh rappini. But this is an oatmeal thread, not a lentil and quinoa thread.

But, since you and I have already hijacked the crap out of it.....


I used to eat a strictly macrobiotic diet. I ate beans and rice and tofu and daikon and umeboshi plums and green tea etc. until they were coming out of my ears. You know what? I felt like shit most of the time, in spite of the fact that I spent several hours a day meditating and doing martial art forms and eschewing drink and drugs and sleeping eight hours a day.

God, I'm glad those days are over!

These days I eat and do what I want and I have so much more energy...even though I am twenty years older. Not that I don't have problems but a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm pushing the big six-oh. Back then, though, I was just getting sick.

Eventually I got so run down that I got a massive respiratory infection that almost killed me. Whatever was wrong with me I couldn't get over it and to top it all off, I couldn't eat. I literally couldn't swallow solid food for almost a month and was severely dehydrated in spite of drinking several liters of water and bancha tea a day. Thankfully my doctor put me on Gatorade or I probably would have died.

During my slow recovery I continued to get consults from my macrobiotic mentor. She kept telling me to follow the diet to the letter. She wasn't even hearing me say that I wasn't able to eat any of it. One day I was literally on my hands and knees groping around for anything that I thought I might swallow. Then in the back of the hydrator I found a couple of pink grapefruit. I hadn't eaten a piece of citrus for over a year as it is forbidden in macrobiotics, but there was always such things for the wife and kids. I still remember twirling that grapefruit around in my hands, and the next thing I knew, I was covered in grapefruit juice and I had just successfully consumed my first solid food in weeks. The second one disappeared almost as fast as the first one did.

After that, eating was easy. When I went to see Isabel I told her about the miraculous effect that the grapefruit had had on me. She just gave me a wicked look and told me that there was no use consulting her if I was going to violate the diet. So I fired her.

As a coda to my little tale, I had a friend at the time who was every bit as obsessed with her vegetarian diet as I was (she wasn't macrobiotic but she and her husband were fanatical about it). Her husband Rick had been sick for a long time. He was diagnosed with the "Yuppie Flu" (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome), one of those mystery illnesses like fibromyalgia that have no etiology, just a set of symptoms. He got weaker and weaker until one day he was driving home from his teaching job and his heart just stopped beating. At 42, my friend Rick was dead. An autopsy failed to reveal any major pathologies.

I'm not trying to say that a vegetarian diet will kill you. Dan. who posts on the forum is a vegetarian and he does all kinds of tripping (although the dude is only 24 or something). What I am saying is that for me, I've learned to trust the signals that my body gives me and to listen to my cravings. The last thing a fat guy wants to do is to die of starvation.

BTW, I'd be careful about just quoting any old source that happens to agree with your personal POV. When I checked out the abstracts of some of their citations I was alarmed to find that most of them didn't describe any actual research that had been done on the nutritive benefits of lentils or quinoa. Most of the citations, while impressive enough looking, are actually about the suspected role of magnesium deficiency in myocardial infarction. They carry on like the humble lentil is a magic bullet to prevent heart attacks and then fail to even give magnesium content in the nutritional analysis.

Quote:
Lentils' contribution to heart health lies not just in their fiber, but in the significant amounts of folate and magnesium these little wonders supply. Folate helps lower levels of homocysteine, an amino acid that is an intermediate product in an important metabolic process called the methylation cycle. When folate (as well as vitamin B6) are around, homocysteine is immediately converted into cysteine or methionine, both of which are benign. When these B vitamins are not available, levels of homocysteine increase in the bloodstream--a bad idea since homocysteine damages artery walls and is considered a serious risk factor for heart disease.

Lentils' magnesium puts yet another plus in the column of its beneficial cardiovascular effects. Magnesium is Nature's own calcium channel blocker. When enough magnesium is around, veins and arteries breathe a sigh of relief and relax, which lessens resistance and improves the flow of blood, oxygen and nutrients throughout the body. Studies show that a deficiency of magnesium is not only associated with heart attack but that immediately following a heart attack, lack of sufficient magnesium promotes free radical injury to the heart. Want to literally keep your heart happy? Eat lentils.


Yeah, a pretty piece of prose, but it is pretty lame of them to quote scientific journals just to look well researched.

So I did my own PubMed search on these items.

Out of millions of articles in almost 35,000 scientific journals that are in the PubMed index, I found a grand total of 258 articles that even mentioned the word "lentil". Of this tiny fraction, I found only a few that were even remotely about nutrition. So where is all this research about lentils and other legumes, and why is it hidden from the medical community's primary index?

A couple of these abstracts described some things you are all too familiar with: dehydration of food stuffs and the sprouting of legumes.

Quote:
Agric Food Chem. 2006 Oct 4;54(20):7652-7. Links
Effect of industrial dehydration on the soluble carbohydrates and dietary fiber fractions in legumes.

Martín-Cabrejas MA, Aguilera Y, Benítez V, Molla E, López-Andréu FJ, Esteban RM.
Departamento de Química Agrícola, Facultad de Ciencias, Universidad Autónoma de Madrid (UAM), 28049 Madrid, Spain. maria.martin@uam.es
The effects of soaking, cooking, and industrial dehydration treatments on soluble carbohydrates, including raffinose family oligosaccharides (RFOs), and also on total dietary fiber (TDF), insoluble dietary fiber (IDF), and soluble (SDF) dietary fiber fractions were studied in legumes (lentil and chickpea). Ciceritol and stachyose were the main alpha-galactosides for chickpea and lentil, respectively. The processing involved a drastic reduction of soluble carbohydrates of these legumes, 85% in the case of lentil and 57% in the case of chickpea. The processed legume flours presented low residual levels of alpha-galactosides, which are advisable for people with digestive problems. Processing of legumes involved changes in dietary fiber fractions. A general increase of IDF (27-36%) due to the increase of glucose and Klason lignin was observed. However, a different behavior of SDF was exhibited during thermal dehydration, this fraction increasing in the case of chickpea (32%) and decreasing in the case of lentil (27%). This is probably caused by the different structures and compositions of the cell wall networks of the legumes.
PMID: 17002435 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1700 ... d_RVDocSum


Quote:
Lebensm Unters Forsch. 1996 Jan;202(1):35-9.Links
Evolution and kinetics of monosaccharides, disaccharides and alpha-galactosides during germination of lentils.

Frias J, Diaz-Pollan C, Hedley CL, Vidal-Valverde C.
John Innes Centre, Norwich, UK.
The effect of light and seed rinsing during the germination of lentil seeds (Lens culinaris var. vulgaris, cultivar Magda-20) on the level of monosaccharides, disaccharides and alpha-galactosides (raffinose, ciceritol and stachyose) was investigated. The total soluble sugar content corresponded to about 9% of the mature seed weight, about 65% of which was alpha-galactosides. Germination brought about a large decrease in alpha-galactosides: 18% to 40% losses after 3 days and 100% after 6 days. However, glucose, which was not detected in ungerminated seeds, as well as fructose and sucrose gradually increased during germination. The content of alpha-galactosides decreased more rapidly when germinating seeds were given 6 h light per day, but under these conditions there was also a major reduction in the levels of fructose, glucose and sucrose. Seeds rinsed daily showed a greater reduction of alpha-galactosides and an increase in the levels of fructose, glucose and sucrose. When seeds were germinated for 10 days in the dark with daily rinsing, the content of alpha-galactosides decreased gradually during the first 4 days and they were not detected after 6 days. Under these conditions, fructose, glucose and sucrose, which represented about 3% of the mature seed weight, started increasing after day 2 and represented more than 13% of the germinated seed dry weight after 10 days.
PMID: 8717093 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... xed=google


I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions about these abstracts. I don't have access to these journals to see the main body of text. Perhaps you do.

You can do your own PubMed search for "quinoa"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entre ... ol=toolbar

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PostPosted: February 4th, 2008, 8:32 pm 
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Joined: August 13th, 2002, 7:00 pm
Posts: 3048
some of my sources...

St. Joseph's Healthcare in Hamilton, ON

Canada’s new Food Guide heart healthier

Alberta Agriculture and Food

University of Minnesota


for the record......

1.. there is a great deal of research on the benefits of legumes and seeds such as quinoa and it has all of the aminos... it is a healthy choice and will not make you sick.

2. I am not a vegetarian - in fact I haven't been a vegetarian in almost 18 years - nor am I pushing vegetarian or vegan lifestyles (that is an individual choice)

3. I am not on a macrobiotic diet

4. I do not promote any type of diet that restricts in any way that could compromise health

5. The sources I quoted are as reputable as your resources... so we will have to agree to disagree... I also followed up with consulting several experts in the field of nutrition before expressing this information

anyway back to oatmeal recipes.. anyone have any more savory ideas for oatmeal?


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PostPosted: February 8th, 2008, 9:37 pm 
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paddler2 wrote:
.......anyway back to oatmeal recipes.. anyone have any more savory ideas for oatmeal?


Yeah.

Before leaving home, put rolled oats for the next day's breakfast, a bit of salt, half the amount of water you would normally use, and a tablespoon of yogurt (with active cultures) into a ziplock.

Next morning, put the remaining amount of water and all but a couple tablespoons of the contents of the ziplock into a pot and bring to a slow boil. If you like, add raisins or whatever else you like with your oatmeal.

While it's cookin', put tomorrow's oats, water, and salt into the ziplock along with the couple tablespoons of today's stuff that you left there.

Cookin' up today's will be quicker than starting with dry oats, so watch it.

The soak of as much as a day with lactobacilli makes all that good stuff in the oats available to your hominoid digestive system......it's the way traditional oat-eating cultures like the Scots did it. And when tripping, the shorter cook-time helps.

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PostPosted: February 9th, 2008, 2:22 am 
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Graybeard wrote:
The soak of as much as a day with lactobacilli makes all that good stuff in the oats available to your hominoid digestive system......it's the way traditional oat-eating cultures like the Scots did it. And when tripping, the shorter cook-time helps.

So, me finishing off the kid's oatmeal from today's breakfast that sat out on the counter until the evening might have been a good thing? The raisins sure were good.

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PostPosted: February 9th, 2008, 9:42 am 
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pawistik wrote:
So, me finishing off the kid's oatmeal from today's breakfast that sat out on the counter until the evening might have been a good thing? The raisins sure were good.

Good eatin', as you say, but no better nutritionally unless the kids spilled live lactobacilli into it.

b

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PostPosted: May 18th, 2008, 8:34 pm 
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Location: Muskoka, Ontario
I make the following for breakfast pretty much every day. Canoe trips generally means no berries or pineapple, cooked on camp stove.

0.5 cup large flake rolled oats
some raisins
2 tablespoons flax meal
pinch salt
1.0 cup water
microwave for 3' (small microwave)
add:
0.75 cup mixed berries (straw,rass,black,&blue)
1 ring pineapple
top with "So Good Original" brand soya milk

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