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PostPosted: August 21st, 2013, 12:30 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
I recently returned from a 17 day solo on the Savant and Little Savant systems in NW Ontario.

For cooking, although I use fire and my Purcell Trench grill for pot and fry pan support whenever possible, for the rainy periods under the tarp, I used my Trangia and Clikstand combo - first time for me using an alcohol stove on a canoe trip. (I have field tested it when back packing).

I even splurged and purchased the titanium Clickstand (so will be selling my stainless steel Clikstand soon).

This is a review of the system. I forgot to take photos of my system in action, so I will link the photo from Clikstand's website: http://www.clikstand.com/

Image

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Here is a good YT video link review of the Clikstand with Trangia, by Craig at Crawlingroad channel, who uses tall pots shaped similar to mine, but without the bail handles I added to mine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA_PlURurKA

I brought my 8 inch Primus LiTech fry pan. I had a 2-course fried breakfast every morning: OvaEasy eggs for the first course (food review coming soon), followed by my own “power packed pancakes” with raspberry jam. I also used it for cooking fish. The Clikstand wind screen diameter is too small for the fry pan, so I also brought a standard roll up aluminum windscreen (Primus), to wrap the frypan - its plenty long enough to wrap it. The Clickstand has wide pot supports, and the 8 inch pan stability was fine.

This was my first long trip where I used an alcohol stove system instead of a liquid white gas stove system for rainy days. I am happy to report that it worked very well. For summer trips where I can get some wind shelter in the trees, I may be a Trangia convert, using my own pot and Clikstand system (not Trangia’s cook system). My pots (Evernew Ti, 1.4L and 1.9 L deep pots http://www.evernewamerica.com/ti_ns_deep.htm ), are brought for multiple use, primarily fire, with custom installed bail handles and swing out wire handles. I can hang the pots from a stick through the bail, use a support grill, place directly in coals, reach into flames and pull them out on a pot stick, etc, and its a more versatile system for me as a primary fire user than the dedicated Trangia no-handled pot and windscreen system. I gotta have bail handles for using fire.

I also brought my Littlbug Jr. stick stove for use under the tarp in the rain when I had the time to split out dry wood, so that reduced my need for alcohol fuel more. On hind sight, I could have left it at home, because it was either very wet (Trangia use), or dry/split dry (open fire on the Purcell grill).

The combined weight of the Ti Clikstand, Trangia burner, and alcohol fuel was less than a white gas stove and fuel I figure, and no repair kit needed for the Trangia. The aluminum windscreen is neutral (needed for both), and extra Ti Clickstand windscreen is almost negligible.

The Trangia was used wide open for boiling and getting the fry pan up to temp, and the simmer ring was used for simmering my dehydrated meals, and a slow fry on the fish and pancakes.

I tried the reflectix pot cosy thing, but it does not work for me and my dehydrated food, which takes longer than freeze dried packet “food”. I like to low simmer for a while, and I like a lot of hot water for hot drinks, and some hot wash water. That requires that I refill or top up the Trangia one or two times. Also I needed my Leatherman pliers to grab the hot simmer ring to pull off and on and adjust. So its definitely less convenient than a gas or liquid fuel stove with a good simmer adjuster. But once I got used to the extra fiddling with the simmer ring, it was no big deal. The pay off is total quiet, no pumping, no maintenance issues.

Overall I am very pleased with the combo, and likely will travel long trips with it again in warm weather in the forest zone. For colder weather and water, and for the very windy arctic Barrens where its just bloody windy much of the time with little shelter, I might stay with my liquid white gas stove system. But I tell ya, that piece of mind that the alcohol stove will not fail is very nice.

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PostPosted: August 21st, 2013, 7:45 am 
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I love the tragina stove and system for my solo trips but when I solo, my needs are modest. I just need to heat up water or food quickly. I can get 3 meals "cooked" out of one fill of the stove.

Your set up seems more versatile and makes sense for what you are doing.

As far as a wind screen goes, I simply use some tin foil and just wrap it around the pot.

The tragina can be difficult to handle when hot. Even putting the simmering top on it will not necessarily put out the flame but for a light weight solo cook system, it is ideal.

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PostPosted: August 21st, 2013, 2:07 pm 
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Location: Manitoba
Great review Hoop.

In particular I liked that you shared, I quote, "its a more versatile system for me as a primary fire user than the dedicated Trangia no-handled pot and windscreen system."

I also read with interest your closing statement, "For colder weather and water, and for the very windy arctic Barrens where its just bloody windy much of the time with little shelter, I might stay with my liquid white gas stove system. But I tell ya, that piece of mind that the alcohol stove will not fail is very nice." Not mentioning a white gas stove repair kit would cost $25-30 and may not be able to repair it.

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PostPosted: August 21st, 2013, 10:22 pm 
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Joined: January 1st, 2002, 7:00 pm
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Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA
I am a Trangia Clikstand convert and can not say enough good things about it. I have used one for years and switched to titanium when it became available. I like the simplicity, no fuss and weight savings. I find it is easy to light by showering the sparks into the stove using flint and steel. I have used it in temperatures into the low 40'sF without issues. When every ounce counts I will use a Caldera Cone but the Trangia Clikstand combo is my go to.

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PostPosted: August 21st, 2013, 11:11 pm 
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Don't you find the Trangia a bit heavy? The Clikstand helps reduce the weight of the Trangia system, but the burner alone seems a bit hefty. There are other lighter alcohol burners that can simmer...for example Packafeather (much lighter) and Brasslite (a bit lighter). I find myself reaching for them first. Maybe I'm just a gram counter?

Looking forward to the recipe for power packed pancakes!

Also, about how much methyl hydrate are you using per day or meal on average, if you're simmering lot. Just curious. How much fuel did you take for that trip?

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PostPosted: August 22nd, 2013, 7:31 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
:D
sturgeon wrote:
Don't you find the Trangia a bit heavy? The Clikstand helps reduce the weight of the Trangia system, but the burner alone seems a bit hefty. There are other lighter alcohol burners that can simmer...for example Packafeather (much lighter) and Brasslite (a bit lighter). I find myself reaching for them first. Maybe I'm just a gram counter?
Looking forward to the recipe for power packed pancakes!
Also, about how much methyl hydrate are you using per day or meal on average, if you're simmering lot. Just curious. How much fuel did you take for that trip?



Hi Sturgeon,
For canoe tripping I consider the extra grams for the Trangia burner weight a non issue for me, based on the larger portaging loads anyway (my empty barrel with harness alone weighs something like 8 or 10 pounds or something!). For backpacking and the gram weenies (I am evolving that way to be a GW too as I get older), then yes the extra grams add up, but there is the advantage of being able to store the unburned fuel as you know, so that fuel storage instead of burning off is an interesting cost-benefit analysis. I have seen the Brasslite on YT, but never burned one in real life, and will have to look up the Packafeather – not familiar with that one.

Fuel use: I will have to review my diary notes to recall how many times I cooked on the Trangia. In total I used about 600 ml (eye ball estimate of the fuel remaining in the 1 L fuel bottle I brought). I will see what I can calculate and get back to you.

I have some video footage of the power packed pancakes, but I am having video technical problems with my software at the moment! :D

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PostPosted: August 22nd, 2013, 8:50 am 
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Location: Kingston, ON
Thanks for the review Hoop. I use a Trangia triangle which is a knock off of the Clickstand without the integrated windshield supports. I got the Trangia triangle because it was available locally and my pots and fry pan are too big for click stands integrated windscreen. The Trangia triangle is also cheaper. One problem with the Trangia triangle stand is it interferes with the simmer ring in the fully open and nearly fully open position. A position I favor when making eggs and pancakes.

Does the Clickstand share this problem?


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PostPosted: August 22nd, 2013, 1:30 pm 
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Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA
I use the Evernew Titanium DX Stove in place of the Trangia burner. It's diameter is slightly smaller; thus, you need to use the adapter which is nothing more than a wire that goes around the stove. This Trangia clone is not capable of storing fuel and does not come with a simmer ring or cap to snuff the flame out.

I use an ounce (30 mls) of alcohol in both stoves to boil a liter of water for breakfast and a soup/stew dinner for myself only. On all of my trips I will bring just enough fuel for 2 meals per day. I will bring an additional amount of fuel to boil an additional liter of water per day for one-quarter of the trip's length just in case it turns cold and I want something hot prior to bedtime or if I need more than an ounce of fuel to cook a meal (rarely happens). For a 10 day I will bring 25 ounces = 750 mls.

I never used the simmer ring on my Trangia burner. I do not think you can use it wide open on the Clikstand. Hopefully, Hoop can confirm.

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PostPosted: August 22nd, 2013, 5:15 pm 
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RE Trangia simmer ring use on the Clikstand: Yes you get a good range of simmer ring adjustment to almost full open. That is one of the reasons I chose the Clickstand over the Triangle versions, which are narrower.

I found that for frying fish I did not want the ring full open, once the pan was up to temp. About half to 3/4 open was good. So I would run the burner wide open (no ring) and then when up to my preferred temp, place the simmer ring on. I always had my Leatherman handy, because I sometimes flubbed the placement and missed, since you have to reach down inside the Clickstand.

When I purchased the Ti Clickstand, I also ordered the Ti Evernew burner with the adapter wire. I got that just before the trip and need to experiment with more before I take it on a trip. You can use the Trangia simmer ring on the Evernew burner. But I found that the lower level jets on the Evernew produced too many vapors when its hot, and they escape around the base of the simmer ring even when fully closed, and produce a large hot flame beyond simmer levels. So I need to play with the Evernew at home for a while to learn how to control the simmer better. I am thinking about a mod using carbon felt to make a gasket to essentially cover the lower jets on the Evernew. Problem is I cannot find a source of carbon felt in Canada, so am hoping my contact at Folding Firebox will send me some extra carbon felt I asked him for when he ships me the new Nano model I purchased. He is doing his tooling up and first manufacturing run now, so expects to ship in September. If anyone knows a source of carbon felt in Canada, please let me know.

I also found the Evernew burner is so powerful that it eats fuel much faster. Not necessarily a problem if you can carry more fuel, or work a mod to reduce the flame.

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PostPosted: August 23rd, 2013, 7:31 am 
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Carbon Felt

Buy some from Tinny at Minibull Designs. He will only charge you $5 for the shipping, less than you would pay for mail in Canada.

Why do they make all this stuff from titanium? I guess it is very strong for the weight but as aluminum can cope quite happily with the temperatures involved it would be a lot cheaper and have less environmental footprint to use that instead? Guess it just hasn't got the sex appeal!

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PostPosted: August 23rd, 2013, 6:08 pm 
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chris randall wrote:
Carbon Felt

Buy some from Tinny at Minibull Designs. He will only charge you $5 for the shipping, less than you would pay for mail in Canada.

Why do they make all this stuff from titanium? I guess it is very strong for the weight but as aluminum can cope quite happily with the temperatures involved it would be a lot cheaper and have less environmental footprint to use that instead? Guess it just hasn't got the sex appeal!


Thanks Chris for the tip for asking Tinny! I did not know he sold carbon felt.

Re Ti and aluminum: It does depend on the stove and stove stand design. When alcohol flames directly hit metal, its beyond the melting point of aluminum. Steel gets red hot. Hiram Cook (Youtube alcohol stove testing expert) melted an aluminum pot stand once in his vids, and he says that home made pop can burners tend not to last long. Some pot stand designs are poor and actually sink heat away from the pot, adding several minutes to the boil, and Hiram has quantified this in many of his videos. The Westwind is a famous one for reducing efficiency by heat sinking so efficiently, that it does not melt itself either. Hiram found it works better upside down.

But you are right, there are some aluminum burners and stands that can last, Ti is very expensive, but there are cost-benefits. I think brass has been a standard for years because of its heat performance, but lately, most Trangia's are cracking and leaking around the rim it seems. The internet is full of stories about it. They are now saying you should not run a Trangia dry. I am on my 3rd Trangia, having cracked 2 after just a few uses because I ran them dry, I guess. :(

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PostPosted: August 24th, 2013, 4:31 pm 
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Interesting about the Trangia burners. One of the problems has always been that they inevitably run dry as they cannot be refueled on the go.

I liked Hiram`s adaptation with a tube to fill the Trangia but you still have to take the pot off to see how much fuel is being added. It`s probably the biggest reason for liking my Minibull remote stove. I have it set up with the SS remote so it will happily fuel itself as long as the 4oz bottle still has some fuel in it.

Come to think of it I have melted aluminum tent pegs I was using as a pot support but it seems to be overkill to use a very high temperature material in such a complex pressing. A cylinder of hardware cloth is cheap and replaceable if damaged/ lost. Tinny has some stoves with aluminum rods to support the pans which don`t seem to have a problem so maybe shape or thickness has something to do with it?

I wonder which pop can stoves don't last? The designs made from aluminum bottles are maybe a little thicker so more robust. It's possible that if that are annealed as part of the construction process they will be less susceptible to cracking too.

Aluminum roof flashing makes great wind screen. It's fairly heavy duty but if you use a barrel it can tuck around the inside out of the way.

Chris

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PostPosted: August 24th, 2013, 9:56 pm 
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Good news on the Evernew Ti burner plus Trangia simmer ring. Forget what I said on an earlier post on having a problem with vapors coming up from underneath the ring and being too hot for a simmer. It must have been not seated right.

I was doing more tests at home on the Clikstand (using the wire adapter for the Evernew burner), and the simmer ring worked perfectly, just like as if it was on the Trangia. If you see flames from underneath the ring when you place it on, just tap it and it will seat on the rim of the Evernew and cover those jets, and its fine.

I filled fuel in it to the top of the inscribed fill line on the Evernew, which is more than the 60 ml / 2 oz line, I am guessing 70 or so ml. I boiled 600 ml of cold tap water in my 1.4 L Ti pot in about 6.5 minutes, then placed the simmer ring as wide open as it would go in the Clickstand, which is wide, and it simmered a light rolling boil until it burned out at 41 minutes. 41 minutes on a sustained rolling boil in a Ti pot is pretty darn good!

So I am still a Trangia man because I like that design for storability of unburned fuel, but the lightness of the Evernew for hiking is going to be nice. You can pour out fuel from the Evernew, but you need a cap or tin to do this, so if counting grams, there may be a few extra in parts, unless you don’t mind burning up extra fuel each run.

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