View topic - Stripper Keel / Stem Repair. Easiest / Best Method?

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PostPosted: May 20th, 2019, 4:41 pm 
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Hey all,

I recently pulled my cedar canoe down to bring to the lake when I noticed that the glass on the stem/keel is either cracked or worn away. See below:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uAivzpdLsZtN9rPx8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/f4zPppR2QnuzwxiZ7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LJKS7jZVVfjGXja17

This is more than likely from the boat being dragged in and out of the water; the damage is just below the stem, where the proper keel starts.

There are two things that I want to do here. One, I want to repair the damage to keep the wood protected. And two, I want to put something in place so that I don't have this problem again, and if I can solve one problem so that it takes care of the other, even better. What's the best way to approach this? Ideas I had:

1) Fill the crack with a high quality glue, add a layer or two of poly, then put some kind of keel guard like Keal Eazy down the entire length
2) Remove the glass from the affected spots, re-glass it with a patch and resin
3) Fill up the crack with the epoxy resin and use fiberglass tape with resin to patch the missing areas
3) Other options (Brass stem guard? Epoxy filler?)

I want a solution that will effectively repair but also protect the bottom from damage so that I don't have to do this again. The easier the better. If I'm going to put a protector of some sort on it, the repair doesn't necessarily have to be pretty.

What say you? Thanks for you help, it's appreciated!


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PostPosted: May 20th, 2019, 7:14 pm 
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Dynel Fabric

Two posts down

https://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=47322

You may want to PM Recped for Dynel availability (see page 2 of that thread)


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PostPosted: May 20th, 2019, 8:26 pm 
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Mike McCrea wrote:
Dynel Fabric

Two posts down

https://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=47322

You may want to PM Recped for Dynel availability (see page 2 of that thread)


Available if you order in the next 2 hours, if not you will have to wait two weeks because I haven't figured out a way to ship while I'm paddling a river!

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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 7:12 am 
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The easiest option for me was to use the extra glass and epoxy I had left over to build up a thicker abrasion strip under the stems where the abrasion from dragging and beaching would be greatest. Six-ounce e-glass provides a very thin layer, so thickness was built up with some fiberglass matting up to about a quarter inch. Building up enough thickness took some time so maybe not the quickest option, together with the sanding afterwards to smooth out. But glass sands easily.

The glass looks good in a stripper, translucent and amber in color. It's wearing away slowly, and also has some compression strength in that thickness to take a direct hit from rocks if that ever happens.

Dynel is said to be far more abrasion-resistant than glass... I've never tried it.

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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 8:32 am 
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These are some good ideas, thank you. It's good to have a few options in mind.

Now for repairing the damage that's there already. What can work, knowing that I'll be placing something more on the top of it (so it doesn't have to look perfect)?

1) Epoxy: can I pour it into the fiberglass crack and clamp it for acceptable adhesion before patching? Or do I need to cut away all glass that's separated and then re-glass it with a bigger patch?
2) Instead of epoxy, would Gorilla Glue or some other marine-friendly glue be acceptable to re-adhere the cracked part before I patch it?
3)If glue will work, can I just layer that up on all the affected areas, including the small spot of exposed wood, before adding a skid of some sort for protection?

Basically, I'm curious if I can simply use marine-friendly glue to patch and repair for ease, versus of having to cut, patch, and re-glass with epoxy. Either way some skid material is going to be placed on top of this. Maybe even some brass stem bands from Bear Mountain.


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 8:33 am 
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Dynel is incredibly abrasion resistant. A few years ago we repaired several sea kayaks that see constant guide use in an environment that includes abrasive limestone, oyster bars and worm rock. Some done with S-glass, some with Dynel. The S-glass barely lasted a season of abrasion, the Dynel is still going strong.

The issue with Dynel on a stripper is that it wets out milky whiteish. If you don’t mind the contrast of black skid plates on a wood hull just add some graphite powder for deeply black saturated abrasion-resistant skid plates.

I do not know if KeelEasy is appropriate for wood hulls, and I would prefer to taper/shape a skid plate for the coverage area indicated by the scrapes and scratches rather than lay down a linear strip.

KeelEasy does offer ease of application, but has little else to recommend it. See various KeelEasy failure photos in this review. I have some KeelEasy in the shop; the last photo was enough to dissuade me from ever using it.

http://bloyd-peshkin.blogspot.com/2011/ ... ld-up.html


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 8:43 am 
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Oh I did not realize you were selling that now recped - the other thread says you were running numbers. Where did you announce that you were selling it now?


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 8:55 am 
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Not to be judgemental...but why are you dragging your canoe on abrasive surfaces? Yes, we all run into to odd occasion of canoe touches rocks/sand/etc...but do do so habitually?
Less layers of 'protection' equals lighter canoe equals easier to lift.

Yes, I'm old. Still paddle cedar canvas. Still strive to have the canoe touch only air and water. Brass stem bands are beautiful.


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 10:03 am 
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red pine wrote:
Not to be judgemental...but why are you dragging your canoe on abrasive surfaces? Yes, we all run into to odd occasion of canoe touches rocks/sand/etc...but do do so habitually?
While I appreciate your candor, I don't actually drag this in and out of the water. These spots were already weak on the canoe when I purchased it second-hand, and with two seasons it's finally started to wear off. I only bring this in and out of the water on the sand of our lake.


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 12:44 pm 
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Is there a keel along the whole length of the canoe? I've used keal eazy on one of my strippers, didn't last long. I would simply sand that down, reapply glass and resin, then slap a brass stem band on it. All of my strippers get brass stem bands, and none of them look like your canoe, despite severe abuse.


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 2:06 pm 
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Rob - How to handle the cloth at the stems when first fibreglassing? Following the original CanoeCraft instructions my stems look very much like the ones in this thread. The wear seems to have as much do with the adhesiveness of the epoxy to the ash stems as anything else.

As for care and maintenance, I sand them down and varnish them. Over the course of many years I might need a patch of cloth in a spot but the ash stems are hard enough on their own to handle normal wear.

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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 2:33 pm 
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Well, the reason I asked if there was a keel is because of the raised nature of the external stem. All of my external stems are planed into the lines of the canoe, with no raised part showing...difficult to explain, so here is a pic of one canoe before the brass stem band.
Image

Before I glass the hull, I glass each stem with three layers of e glass, then put the drape over top, no fiddling around trying to get the one piece to work. For a raised stem such as the OP's, I would just sand it down and recover with two or three layers of e glass, sand it into the hull, then fire the brass stem band on.


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 4:32 pm 
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RHaslam wrote:
...
Before I glass the hull, I glass each stem with three layers of e glass, then put the drape over top, no fiddling around trying to get the one piece to work. For a raised stem such as the OP's, I would just sand it down and recover with two or three layers of e glass, sand it into the hull, then fire the brass stem band on.



Now that is a good idea - the 3 layers of glass over the stem before doing the hull.

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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 4:33 pm 
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Prospector16 wrote:
Oh I did not realize you were selling that now recped - the other thread says you were running numbers. Where did you announce that you were selling it now?


https://myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=47403

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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 4:47 pm 
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red pine wrote:
Not to be judgemental...but why are you dragging your canoe on abrasive surfaces? Yes, we all run into to odd occasion of canoe touches rocks/sand/etc...but do do so habitually?
Less layers of 'protection' equals lighter canoe equals easier to lift.

Yes, I'm old. Still paddle cedar canvas. Still strive to have the canoe touch only air and water. Brass stem bands are beautiful.


I won't be judgmental either but why bother completely emptying a canoe and lifting it up in the air when you can just drag it? :rofl:

Habitually if the distance is less than about 300m I drag, when I encounter a boulder filled virtually dry riverbed I drag, when I pull my canoe up on shore I drag, when I'm lifting over a ledge I don't feel comfortable running I drag and I frequently do all these things with a couple of hundred pounds of gear in the boat.

Some people refer to me as "the canoe killer" :rofl:

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