View topic - Looking for the right boat for my criteria

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PostPosted: August 28th, 2019, 3:29 pm 
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Splake wrote:
RHaslam wrote:
... It can be had in a variety of layups, tuff stuff probably being the one to best suit you. ...


Nah, TuffStuff is still a cloth/resin layup so that makes it identical to carbon fibre based on the definition that Canuck Energy applied to claim that Kevlar is identical to carbon fibre. :doh: (Side note, yes the Kevlar molecule contains carbon, no it does not have the same molecular structure as carbon fibre)

Honestly, this thread feels like a troll, but it's still the middle of canoe season and we don't usually see the trolls come out until January.

Nonetheless, if you want a tandem boat that is big enough to be a tandem tripping boat but still be manageable solo then take a look at the John Winters Swift designs. They are asymmetrical hulls that typically transition from a shallow arch hull in the front section to a shallow V in the stern section. That makes for really good tracking and handling. For soloing you can add a kneeling thwart, or even add brackets for a third seat.

My Temagami was my go to boat when tripping 1-on-1 with the kids when they were as young as 9 because of the handling characteristics. I've also soloed that boat in the French River area although it took work. I wouldn't recommend going as large as the Temagami or the Quetico based on the expectation you would be tripping solo 40% of the time. Rather I'm offering this info as proof that a John Winters design could be a good fit for you.

Note that my Temagami has an optional 3rd seat right behind the sliding bow seat. It takes about 5 minutes to put it in or remove it - 4 screws and lock nuts. The brackets have never been a hindrance when using the canoe without the 3rd seat. Those same brackets could readily have been mounted between the yoke and the stern thwart.


No I'm not a troll, the whole reason I'm having such a difficult tone choosing a boat is because I'm going against many conventions. I know the experience I want and and I'm struggling to communicate it. I'm the type of person who has a bias for durability, this is because I'm a huge person who often finds himself in a world made for smaller people. It **** sucks and you calling me a troll for it makes you suck too. I don't "speak canoe" I just joined this forum.

And frankly your John winters this and Temagani that isn't all that readily helpful either. Who Makes them?

Also kneeling is mostly out, two reasons I'm big and kneeling stucks when you are big, and I work construction in a fashion that abuses my knees. I don't need additional knee stress when I'm trying to enjoy a hobby.

Edit: also my only issue with Kevlar or carbon fiber is price. Otherwise I'm very fond of it. Who doesn't like lightweight. Tuffstuff is definitely a choice I'm willing to consider.


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PostPosted: August 28th, 2019, 3:34 pm 
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Mike McCrea wrote:
The Souris River Quetico 16 specifications are very close to some of the canoes I recommended as Royalex possibilities, 16’ 2” long, 34” gunwale width, 20”/14”/20” depth, 2” symmetrical rocker.

https://www.sourisriver.com/quetico-16

The aluminum thwart behind the bow seat might need to be moved for a long legged paddler, but otherwise it’s right in the same ballpark dimensionally.


Yes I've been looking at these now that I've begun this post. There is a renter here that sells their boats at the end of the season. There seems to be a notable difference between the 16' and the 17', thoughts?


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PostPosted: August 28th, 2019, 3:43 pm 
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I have paddled the Quetico 16 as well, and strangely enough, I did not like it nearly as much as the 17. It felt more tender in my opinion. Canuck, if you get the opportunity, paddle as many different canoes as you can. At this point in your canoe experience, you'll probably be better off going with what feels best. Canoeists are like anyone else, and will push for the kind that they know best, kind of like the chevy vs ford truck thing. I've got over a dozen of the things in a wide variety of of styles and materials, and tend to use them all for different purposes. I'm not sure which one I would stick with if had to pick only one.


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PostPosted: August 28th, 2019, 4:23 pm 
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scratchypants wrote:
There is no thwart behind the bow seat on the Q16 - only between the yoke and stern seat.


My bad, should have looked at the link I posted instead of relying on the fog of memory.

RHaslam wrote:
I have paddled the Quetico 16 as well, and strangely enough, I did not like it nearly as much as the 17. It felt more tender in my opinion. Canuck, if you get the opportunity, paddle as many different canoes as you can. At this point in your canoe experience, you'll probably be better off going with what feels best. Canoeists are like anyone else, and will push for the kind that they know best, kind of like the chevy vs ford truck thing.


I do not remember the bottom shape of the Quetico, and at some indiscernible point the shallow arch I prefer becomes the rounder bottom I do not.

Some manufacturers at least mention the bottom shape, shallow arch or shallow vee or etc. Very few offer a photo that shows the bottom shape; a photo of the hull upside-down, shot level with the keel line would be helpful in that regard, and would also illustrate the flare, tumblehome or etc on the sides.

RHaslam wrote:
I've got over a dozen of the things in a wide variety of of styles and materials, and tend to use them all for different purposes. I'm not sure which one I would stick with if had to pick only one.


Reinforcing my comment about a “first canoe”. We currently have 15 solos (or soloized tandems), but no longer own any of our first half dozen boats, all of which served us well at the time.

Almost all were bought used. A point about buying used; a good value used canoe can often be sold later for near what you paid.


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PostPosted: August 28th, 2019, 4:58 pm 
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I can't find a NovaCraft price list online so I can't comment on whether TuffStuff versions are cheaper than Kevlar or not. MEC lists some NovaCraft canoes, but they don't seem to be stocked so I wouldn't rely on the prices listed there as they may be out of date. I would be a bit surprised if a new TuffStuff boat was cheaper than a new Kevlar boat but they might be.

Swift builds the John Winters designs. They were the mainstream offerings for years but are currently listed under "Special Editions" https://www.swiftcanoe.com/special-editions They also happen to be really hard to find on the used market. Not sure if you're open to a used canoe but that could help with hitting your budget.

I can empathize with not wanting to kneel, which is where having the mounting brackets for a 3rd seat is worth considering. Even if you do got with a symmetrical canoe, having 3rd seat specifically positioned for solo paddling would be a good investment given how much you expect to use the canoe solo.

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PostPosted: August 28th, 2019, 5:36 pm 
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Splake wrote:
I can't find a NovaCraft price list online so I can't comment on whether TuffStuff versions are cheaper than Kevlar or not. MEC lists some NovaCraft canoes, but they don't seem to be stocked so I wouldn't rely on the prices listed there as they may be out of date. I would be a bit surprised if a new TuffStuff boat was cheaper than a new Kevlar boat but they might be.

Swift builds the John Winters designs. They were the mainstream offerings for years but are currently listed under "Special Editions" https://www.swiftcanoe.com/special-editions They also happen to be really hard to find on the used market. Not sure if you're open to a used canoe but that could help with hitting your budget.

I can empathize with not wanting to kneel, which is where having the mounting brackets for a 3rd seat is worth considering. Even if you do got with a symmetrical canoe, having 3rd seat specifically positioned for solo paddling would be a good investment given how much you expect to use the canoe solo.


Wildernesses supply would be my go to dealer for Nova craft. Iunless competitive prices I can't see buying from MEC, too limited. Actually they carry a good deal of brands but that is to say special order. In-stock and rentals more limited.

I'm very open to buying used, I'm just pessimistic about the market, lots of ancient fibreglass, plastic Canadian Tire boats, and prospectors. But I've seen a few rental places that turn over their units often. Lots of clear Kevlar Souris River.


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PostPosted: August 28th, 2019, 6:32 pm 
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Location: SW Quebec
The Quetico 16 is fairly flat, but like the other sizes, it has a short, dramatic flare from the entry line to the wide part of the hull. It has to be properly trimmed or it paddles like a bath tub (or so was my experience).


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PostPosted: September 5th, 2019, 9:54 pm 
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Post deleted... Thought there was a decent local Kijiji ad, but having seen the photo they now added, it was not what I expected based on the brand and description.

P.

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PostPosted: September 7th, 2019, 7:30 am 
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Have not read most of the posts in this thread but all the hemming and hawing back and forth might have been unnecessary with a simple visit to a dealer to test-paddle. I've emailed Swift and Algonquin Outfitters in the past and they will allow time for test-paddling in order to reach a decision. Better still, they might be willing to apply rental fees from a short canoe trip into the park against a purchase. A lot of time can be spent arguing over the internet over what's the best choice when actually spending time in one or several will be the best kind of feedback available to make the decision on.

Good luck, be comfortable.

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