View topic - Bear Spray in Ontario

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PostPosted: July 31st, 2006, 3:34 pm 
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actual Black Bear attacks in Canada in last 50 years less than 30.

ladydi probably ment fatal attacks, in which case she is correct.

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Point being, Black bears are not predacious by nature

Most of us know that bears are omnivours. Many people say "predatory" as a contraction of "will prey on humans"

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A black bear that IS going to attack you is in human terms "insane"


"Predatious" black bear attacks are very rare, relatively, and therefore represents abnormal, or "insane" behaviour.

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actually, you almost always are stalked first...I've yet to read of a [predatory attack where the person was totally blindsided]

Recently read of someone blindsided by a black when they went to their outhouse. I couldn't find the reference. Or are you saying that you think they are such poor stalkers that people always see them coming?


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PostPosted: July 31st, 2006, 3:51 pm 
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Back to reading comprehension 101 for Krusty.

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Can't guarantee my statistic is accurate but very close - actual Black Bear attacks in Canada in last 50 years less than 30. More people are bitten by people!


Translation: I'm making this up and passing it off as fact. If you don't know, don't post! Clearly she meant attacks, not fatal attacks.

Any black bear is going to attack and try to eat a human if it's hungry enough. They are predators. Treadwell lived with grizzlies for 13 years. What killed him? An older bear, hungry and desperate, late in the season and in survival mode.

Black bears openly stalk you because they know they can take you. If someone was blindsided, it's the exception, not the rule. I've read all their is to read about bear attacks, her post was conjecture and guessing. ONce again, if you don't know, don't post! You won't find any advice from me on how to run class IV on this forum, there's a reason. Bear interaction is a serious matter, I've had my share, and what she's advocating could land someone in a world of hurt!

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PostPosted: July 31st, 2006, 4:49 pm 
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GWA wrote:
Black bears openly stalk you because they know they can take you. If someone was blindsided, it's the exception, not the rule. I've read all their is to read about bear attacks,


This "openly stalking" business sounds a bit like jumbo shrimp to me. I thought the whole point of stalking was to sneak up on prey without it becoming aware, so it didn't run away and the predator could have dinner. If the bear "knows" it can take you, does it also somehow know you can't run faster than it can?


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 Post subject: Bear Spray
PostPosted: July 31st, 2006, 6:47 pm 
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Read GWA's comments and make the following counter points.


I don't claim to be an expert, but can point you to one. He happens to be my cousin. Here is the quote from his website "Bear with Us"

http://www.bearwithus.org/human-bear3.htm

"Full-blown attacks by black bears are rare. Black bears attacks are usually not at campgrounds and are usually not by black bears that are familiar with people. Recorded killings by black bears this century total only about 34 across North America. Most of these killings were unprovoked acts of predation. How likely is a black bear to be a killer? The 500,000 black bears in North America kill fewer than one person per 3 years, on the average, despite hundreds of thousands of encounters. To put this in perspective, for each death from a black bear across North America, there are approximately 17 deaths from spiders, 25 deaths from snakes, 67 deaths from dogs, 150 deaths from tornadoes, 180 deaths from bees and wasps, 374 deaths from lightning, and 90,000 homicides in the United States alone (data from the National Center for Health Statistics, 1980-1983). In the rare event of one of these attacks, the best defense is to fight with fists, feet, rocks, or anything hard. Playing dead is usually not the best action with black bears.

Unlike grizzly bear mothers, black bear mothers seldom attack people in defense of cubs. Black bear mothers typically bluff or retreat. Researchers who routinely capture cubs by chasing them up trees have not been attacked even when they have held the screaming cubs. The ferocity of mother black bears is one of the biggest misconceptions about this species."


Credits - University of Minnesota

Several years ago now, Mike attended a family wedding which I also attended. A group of us listened with intense fasination and respect to hear his first hand field experiences with black bears. I have since received his video footage in the field (in Russia and in Canada). He has used the types of techniques i described in the field (with wild bears). This is a person who has litterally travelled across the world and lived it! Mike has travelled to Kamchatka Russia and his presence was noted in "Grizzly Heart" by Charlie Russel.

http://www.avachabay.com/grizzlyheart.htm

So, you can choose what to believe. Personally, I put my money with the guy who has the experience in the field, not some fact based web site that may have it's own motives.

To use an old (dog training) phrase: "When the tailgate drops, the Bull_t stops!!

Diane

P.S Timothey Treadwell was killed by a Grizzly , not a black bear. I urge you to read more about the circumstances of his death and as I suggested watch the movie if you want to get a more balanced view from a variety of perspectives. Also their is much posted on the internet from Grizzly experts such as Charlie Russel. Their is a widely opposing camps to this persons death and I have my own views.


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PostPosted: July 31st, 2006, 7:03 pm 
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RE: My comment "attack without warning". I meant the bear offers no warning (ie chuffing, grunting etc).

I can't coment on the accuracy of the statement that they actually "stalk" people.

I wont' speculate.

I will take a position on the matter of "predation" though (if for no other reason to get GWA all fired up again!) and say the only bear that is a true predator of humans in the polar bear.

Diane


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 Post subject: Bear Spray
PostPosted: July 31st, 2006, 7:31 pm 
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Getting to think I better hire a Philidelphia lawyer before I make any more posts on this web site (ha ha) but wanted to leave one last clarifier.

Fighting a bear off with fists etc only works with black bears (assuming it works and you deter or kill the bear in defence). All of the information I provided was specific to Black Bears ONLY.

A human attacked by a grizzly can really only "play dead" and hope the bear buries you alive to eat later . I would have different tactics if I was living in an area with Grizzlies. (For staters, I would not camp alone which I do in Ontario ).

Diane


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PostPosted: August 1st, 2006, 8:13 am 
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GWA wrote:
Back to reading comprehension 101 for Krusty.
Back to people comprehension 101 for GWA.

Quote:
Any black bear is going to attack and try to eat a human if it's hungry enough. They are predators. Treadwell lived with grizzlies....

For those unfamiliar with both GWA and bears, his juxtaposition was to make a point (that he was right and ladydi wrong), not to equate grizzly and black bear behaviour. That would be wrong.

Quote:
Any black bear is going to attack and try to eat a human if it's hungry enough. They are predators.....

Quote:
Translation: I'm making this up and passing it off as fact.


Having read all the literature, can you please point me to a reference on this?
This is an error in logic and in fact. Because some starving bears have attacked people it does not mean that all starving bears will attack people.

Blacks recognize people as predators, and are generally afraid of us.
A starving bear will not try and eat another bear much bigger than iself. That would be immediate suicide. They'll (almost always) avoid us as they would another large bear. Even when starving.

Quote:
Gotta love the misinformation-net.
Indeed!

ladydi wrote:
I will take a position on the matter of "predation" though (if for no other reason to get GWA all fired up again!)
I see that you've been lurking for a while. GWA's not a bad guy, and will mellow out when he gets a few more years behind him (presuming that eventuality does indeed come to pass :D ).


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 Post subject: Bear Spray
PostPosted: August 1st, 2006, 8:28 am 
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Two points for Krusty! You are right I was lurking - but more from point of view laying the trap - setting the bait.

This won't work now . I had fun anyway and enjoy the lively banter. Krusty you are too smart for me !

Kind regards to GWA
Diane


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PostPosted: August 1st, 2006, 9:31 am 
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This somehow reminds me on another Diane...Dianne. Ouch! These bear traps hurt :P Got me.


Quote:
I see that you've been lurking for a while. GWA's not a bad guy, and will mellow out when he gets a few more years behind him (presuming that eventuality does indeed come to pass ).


I have mellowed out, you should have known me when I was 20 :wink:

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PostPosted: August 1st, 2006, 9:40 pm 
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Location: North Bay, Ontario
I have come across bears in the wild on 3 different occasions, fortunately not face to muzzle but at a safe distance. I've always been amazed at how fast they can move. I swear that unless you were wearing your bear spray on your hip like a sideshooter you wouldn't stand a chance against a bear with bad intentions.


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PostPosted: November 23rd, 2018, 1:19 am 
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I know it's an old thread, but maybe it will be a timely resurrection for someone
The important question is which balloon you need to take and what to look for. There are a number of core features that every bear spray must include, and these are: capsaicin content - minimum 0.857%, content volume - minimum 7.9oz, spray type: cloud and cone pattern, range: minimum 16 feet, type: MUST be “Bear” not other animals, shelf life: minimum 4 years from purchase date, certification: EPA certified (In Canada this is not a requirement). Specialist recomends take two canisters, and its best to buy a larger canister than the 7.9oz minimum tolerance. Also, get a stronger capsaicin model, one that delivers over 1.5% of stopping power.

I bought Counter Assault Bear Deterrent 10.2 oz. https://bestoutdooritems.com/best-bear-spray/ it's very good bear spray. It comes with a holster, so you get a larger sized canister with an easy to reach the application.

I think this video is useful in this theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZTjC6ka9cg


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: November 28th, 2018, 11:32 am 
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Red Lake Rob wrote:
I think I read this on this site somewhere but I will attempt to regurgitate for the benefit of others

You know how to tell the difference between Black Bear scat and
Grizzly Scat?

You can alwasy tell the Grizzly scat becasue of the bells and pepper :lol:



Image


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PostPosted: November 29th, 2018, 3:41 am 
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OMG...was hoping this thread would stay buried. GWA is full of sh/t! I don't miss his guns a blazin BS one bit.

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